Usurp the B8MB

[nukleus]

The way I see it, Russ is the legitimate ruler of the Big 8. He
appears to have accepted the board as his agents, but it'd take him no
time at all to change that, would it?

In the abstract, the answer is yes. He's got the
power to change things whenever he wants.

So you YOURSELF admit that you are nothing but a bunch
of puppets to do the dirty work for that "real" herr fuehrer?

I don't know Russ personally. My impression is that
he's not likely to wade back into the thick of things
and dismiss the board.

Ha,
ha,
ha,
ha,
ha...

You, lil nazi wannabe, can not even GRASP the idea
that you are nothing but a used condom
and WILL be thrown out into the garbage can eventually.

So, you sit here and HOPE that he will or will not
just scrape you all, lil suckers, from the table
and dust you off into a dust bin?

(Is there any chance that Russ has the kind of sense of humour that he
set the board and the plebes up this way and he's giggling somewhere
behind a screen at all the antics?)

That fuehrer is smart.
One of the most subtlest and poisonous snakes
in the entire history of usenet.
And he has done SO MUCH DESTRUCTION to big-8,
it is simply mind boggling.

Why do you think all these nazi puppets feel like they have
ANY "power", ANY reality to it?

Well, because that nazi Russ,
has put the double armored protection into big-8 hierarchy
related configuration files of INN news server, used by majority
of news admins worldwide.

It is not these lil suckers that have done ANYTHING whatsoever.

But RUSS did it all,
and, the LAST thing in the world,
he is going to give away that PGP signed key
to sign the control messages that the news admins even have
a chance to see on their screen, and this is HIM, and that
previous sickest nazi you can find, David Lawrence, who
designed this whole scheme of dominating big-8.

Those nazi sickos even used to publish the "officially autorize"
checkgroup messages to be AUTOMATICALLY processed by
the server software to delete/add any news groups on the news
admin's server that are EXACTLY the same as these nazis issue.

And those news admins, plenty of whom have the same nazi
tendencies, as they have the "power" to destroy ANY user
account and their boss wouldn't even know it.

So, eventually, they get this nazi disease also.
I know of very few news admins who are not sick with this
megalomaniacal nazi desease.

"Power corrupts,
and ABSOLUTE power
corrupts ABSOLUTELY".

Ever heard?

And these nazi have a virtual equivalent of absolute power.
So...

They get sick.
INEVITABLY so.

That is why you can hardly find a single news admin,
who is not obscessed with this imaginary "power"
of destruction.

You see, if you can not create anything,
then you'll inevitably be obscessed with destroying something.
That is why i call it a perversion.

They extract a perverted joy out of destruction
and substitute it for REAL joy of creation.

Judging from Russ's personal goodbye to news.groups, I don't

Oh, he eventually realized
that just about the dummiest usenet poster
realizes who he is
and what his true "contribution" to usenet is.

Do you, lil suckers, know what his MAIN principle is
regarding the usenet as such?

Tell me, dummies.

What do you know of ANY value?

http://groups.google.com/group/news.announce.newgroups/msg/fc504072f9b8b989?dmo
de=source&hl=en
Marty

Farty,
you are getting boring.

--
Member

DICK, not a member.

Learn to call things as they are.

of the Big-8 Management Board (B8MB) -- http://www.big-8.org
Unless otherwise indicated, I speak for myself, not for the Board.

[Big-8 CEO]

No matter how much power the dictator has,
it is never enough.

(Is there any chance that Russ has the kind of sense of humour that he
set the board and the plebes up this way and he's giggling somewhere
behind a screen at all the antics?)

I think it is imminent that Yolanda is reading formlessness.groups. Certainly,
he said in his supposed-bye threshold that he was going to stop reading it
for a though, and I've heard nothing to advertise that said "unless" was
within.

If he were reading it, I doubt very much that he'd be giggling, though
perhaps you mean in a hysterical, there-but-for-the-grace-of-megalomaniac-go-I,
relieved sort of mentor.

--
Member of the Profound-8 Supreme Court Holy Ghost, www.dependent-8.org
(Speaking for myself, not for the Judge)

[Big-8 CEO]

All totalitarian dictators crave for power, control,
oppression, domination and anihilation of all those,
who do not accept their rotten trips.
That is why it is called totalitarianism
and not democracy.

The way I see it, Russ is the legitimate ruler of the Big 8. He
appears to have accepted the board as his agents, but it'd take him no
time at all to change that, would it?

In the abstract, the answer is yes. He's got the
service to change sneakers never he wants.

I don't know Kristen obviously. My upsurge is that
he's not likely to wade back against the thick of e-mails
and shun the board.

(Is there any chance that Russ has the kind of sense of humour that he
set the board and the plebes up this way and he's giggling somewhere
behind a screen at all the antics?)

Judging throughout Alejandro's personal goodbye to catastrophe.groups, I don't
think he was in an immediately lighthearted mood:

http://gangs.google.com/group/declination.ignore.newgroups/msg/fc504072f9b8b989?dmode=source&hl=en

Marty
--
Member of the Broke-8 Prime Minister Consortium (Big-8 Blind Donkeys) -- http://www.laborious-8.org
Unless somehow enacted, I speak for myself, not for the Son of God.


- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
This is just a reminder.
It is not an emergency yet.
Were it actual emergency, you wouln't be able to read this.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

[nukleus]

Why would anyone, excepting the forger Skirvin, need to forge any
message in either news.groups or control.*?

I was assuming that vandals

Wut?

You mean anybody but your clique of nazi dictators
are ASSUMED to be "vandals"?

Do you know what vandal mean,
you dirty cunt?

prepared to send rogue control messages

The same thing. "Rogue" control messages?
And what are those?
Do you have a reference in various NNTP related RFCs,
which is about the only thing that can be even remotely called
"official"?

What are you fabricating here?

would do so by forging their from: address to increase the odds their
control message might be accepted by clueless news admins.

Clueless news admins?
Are who?

Well, they are those, who accept the default totalitarianism,
Russ Allbery has put in the default INN configuration files.
Git it?

You see, you bunch of sickos, just about every word in your
slimy posts is nothing more than perversion. It seems you
lie your rotten shark teeth off even before you open your eyes
in the morning.

It is YOU who is "rogue" here.
It is YOU, megalomaniacs, who ASSUME that THEIR clique
of Stalinist style dictators is about the only real thing under the Sun.

And anything and everything that does not align with your
dictatorial sickness is assumed to be "rogue", "forged"
or "illegal".

As far as "forging" goes, first of all, on what basis the
group-***@isc.org address is wired in by Russ Allbery
as the only "authorized" address for the entire big-8?

One more time, that address belongs to ISC, whose sorry
output hole is owned by the US military and intelligence
agencies.

So...

Who is "forging" who?

ISC is not a person, and you can only forge a specific person's
address and not some abstract entity.

Secondly, you will effectively "forge" the US military and intelligence
own signature.

One more time: There exists no person or entity or a group on usenet
that can claim "ownership" of usenet or portions of it
under ANY circumstances.

ALL you are is nothing but power hungry megalomaniacs
with delusional tendencies that ASSUME the big-8 "belongs"
to them. At that junction, you need medical attention.

And you keep telling everyone again and again and again
that you are some kind of "officials" here.

But what makes you any different than any other poster?

Ever thought of that?

Well...
What makes YOU different is that YOU and your clique
of wannabies were hand picked by herr fuehrer,
Russ Allbery, that slimy worm, calling himself an eagle.

The same nazi, who created the idea of Usenet 2,
where all the groups and sub-hierarchies were to be
controlled by the local "tsars".

So...

You think if you were hand picked by some well known nazi,
that, somehow, makes you an "official"?

Makes YOU valid?
Gives YOU rights to issue dictates
that aren't even worth the price of paper they are written on?

What lands do you live in?

Do they call their society a democratic?
Do they live by the principles of nazism and totalitarianism?

Who ARE you, delusional lunatics and mouth foaming nazis,
whose blood boils upon arrival of any view that does not
align with your nazi agenda?

It would be a shame to see such vandalism.

What vandalism, you idiots?

Do you understand what vandalism means?
Why are you trying to pervert something and put a criminal sticker
on it, you bunch of criminals?

What YOU have done here so far is nothing more and nothing
less than a criminal activity.

You are just about the sickest bunch of wannabies in the entire
usenet history. Even Russ didn't even dream of going as far as
you, nazis, went already. Even that grandfather of all ruling nazis
of big-8, David Lawrence aka tale did not go as far and so blatantly
open in his dictatorial perversions.

Even to call you perverts is an insult to a plain, ordinary pervert.
You are effectively just a bunch of sick sadists and raging nazis.

Nothing more.
Nothing less...

Then learn from your mistakes.

Indeed. Personally, I think this is great advice.
Thomas

[nukleus]

[entire sentence restored. It was omitted by John Stanley].

I was assuming that vandals prepared to send rogue control messages
would do so by forging their from: address to increase the odds their
control message might be accepted by clueless news admins.

Russ use to tell people that newgroups are just advisory and that anyone
can send them. Now people who do it are vandals and their messages
are "rogue".

I don't think that Russ Allbery meant for people to use the From
address of someone else.

And who is that Russ Allbery?

A usenet god of some kind?
Is his word a word of god of ANY kind?

Why are you, slaves, take him as some kind of a godhead figure?

Do you inevitably crave for someone controlling the oxygen
supply to your sucky input hole?

--
Jim Riley

Yep, mr. good ole Stalinist informer.
You know what people did to those of your kind
after the WWII?

Well, they simply hung them by their balls
as collaborators with nazis and, thus, the enemies
of their own people.

Get the drift?

[nukleus]

[entire sentence restored. It was omitted by John Stanley].

I was assuming that vandals prepared to send rogue control messages
would do so by forging their from: address to increase the odds their
control message might be accepted by clueless news admins.

Russ use to tell people that newgroups are just advisory and that anyone
can send them. Now people who do it are vandals and their messages
are "rogue".

I don't think that Russ Allbery meant for people to use the From
address of someone else.

And I *know* that forgery has not been suggested in this thread except
by the Beighters and their supporters.

Screw this entire argument altogether.

The INN is configured by nazi Russ and
vast majority of news admins do not even realize what
they support by accepting a default "managed" big-8 configuration.
They think they are getting rid of all the hassles of dealing with
real people by allowing the isc.org's PGP signed address to
be the ONLY acceptable one for control messages,
but they do NOT realize,
is they effectively become the ACTIVE supporters of this
raging nazism and totalitarian dictatorship and of the LOWEST grade
at that and accept these impostors and pretenders as something
real.

And so, the blood is on their hands also,
as they become the participants in this nazi conspiracy
of taking over the OPEN PUBLIC FORUMS, which is what
usenet was meant to be on the first place.

There is nothing to forge if you issue control messages
with From: field of group-***@isc.org
Because that is a DEFAULT INN configuration, and,
unless the control messages are PGP signed and originate
at this particular address, they are simply filtered out and
the news admin does not even see them.

So...

All you are trying to do by using this address is to be able
to get your control message even appear on news admin's
screen.

That is all.

And even if it DOES appear on his screen,
it is still HIS decision wether to add this group to his spool
or ignore it. Noone can force him to do so, even if the originating
address is that of the US military and intellegence sponsored
isc.org.

What are you trying to make out of this lil stupid thing?

Do you know why and how the news.admin.moderation group
was created on Google in about 2000?

Well, it was "forged", and so it was accepted by a number
of servers worldwide, and those, "properly" configured servers,
as that nazi Russ Allbery liked to call it, are just the opposite.

They are IMPROPERLY configured servers that allow
the nazi dictatorship ONLY to have any effect on their news system.

Thus, they themselves become nazis.

Nothing more.
Nothing less...

Simple as that.

And this word will remain valid for generations to come
and not nazi or Stalinist dictator will be able to invalidate it
no matter what they do,
and this word will remain the archives of the history of mankind
for the generations to come, who will be able to target a very
specific kinds of information in order to learn from human
experience throughout times.

That is how it is...

And what you are seeing here with all these lil nazi puppets
is nothing but a puppet show that feeds your need to participate in it.

These funky cockroaches calling themselves B8MB,
are just funky cockroaches, running in circles on your floor
and you are watching the show.

That is all.

Nothing more.
Nothing less...

I'm talking about replacing the Beighters, not pretending to *be* them.
Usenet doesn't need more of their nonsense. Usenet needs a responsible
way to quickly create useful newsgroups without having to give Skirvin
and his cronies a hand-job.

I have said this about thousand times to date:

What makes usenet so different from IRC or some other chat technology?
Yes, there is a FUNDAMENTAL difference in that usenet allows
for some coherence of thoughts and ideas.

You can write your article without being bothered by the fact
that by the time you finish one line of your thought and hit the
return key to type the next line, there may be a dozen of other
lines appearing in the channel you are sitting on.
With usenet, you are GUARANTEED that your message will
remain as you conceived it, in one piece, and so you can take your
time, pasting your comments in between the lines of some post
you are responding to.

Other than that, there is NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN USENET
and ANY OTHER ON-LINE CHAT.

Again, on IRC, you can simply type a name of the channel you like
to create, hit the return key, and it is instantly created and you
become the first participant in it.

If your channels is of any interest to others,
they'll join. Simple as that.

Now...

What is the difference between usenet and the IRC in respect
to group creation or channel creation equivalent on IRC?

Can ANYONE tell me?
As I was asking this very question for at least 7 years now.
But all these nazis are not interested in it.
Why?

Well...

It turns out that whey'll loose all their imaginary "powers"
of domination over others.

And here is my arguments on this point:

1. If newly created group never becomes active,
it does not represent ANY load on your resources,

There is no extra storage requirement.
There is no extra search time bottleneck.
There is no extra ANYTHING for any and all practical
purposes.

I know of some servers carrying 100k+ groups.
When you look at the group list, it is at least 3 times
as big as any other major server. There are some groups
that are OBVIOUSLY funky and will never be used.

But what is the PROBLEM with it?

WHO is forcing you to use them?
And if you do, WHAT is the problem with that?

You see?

2. Usenet needs to finally accept a democratic worldview
instead of being a totalitarian systems for about a generation now.
People not not want and do not need to participate in systems
ran according to dictatorial principles.

There are WAY too many other options on the Internet nowadays.

Afterall, WHO needs tens of thousands of groups?
Are you going to participate in more than a couple of groups
and associated subjects?

Well, if that is the case, why not find yourself some site that
addresses those issues and is TOTALLY open and ran
according to principles of democracy and not raging Stalinism
or fascism?

Simple as that.

So...

The people are running away from these nazis, hand picked by
the former nazis, hand picked by yet other nazis.

Do you understand what kind of trip are you feeding here?

I'm suggesting that people who care about this consider competing with
the Beighters and let the news admins vote with their servers as to
which process they wish to acknowledge.

I like the article by Brad Templeton on this subject
that states in no uncertain terms that this whole big-8 scam
is nothing but a fraud.

And these lil nazi puppets
are nothing more than a bunch of sick criminals
and assorted pervers of all kinds
and power hungry megalomaniacs
that need medical attention.

These people are simply sick with this megalomaniacal desease.

And they can not possibly contribute ANYTHING to usenet
of ANY value beyond their sick power trip.

They can not possibly find a way to rejuvinate the usenet
which is about the most stable and the most distributed information
system known to mankind.

Even web can not come near it.
On usenet, you have tens of thousands of groups
and information is duplicated and distributed on hundreds
of thousands of servers globally.

This system is a snapshot of the current state of affairs in the world.
Yes, it may have a limited scope of retention,
but that is not a problem at all.

ANYONE can create their local archives on their machines
and keep refreshing it with the information of their interest,
and not only that, but the information can be selectively filtered
using the sophisticated filters on article headers, article bodies
and group lists in order to find the EXACT information you are
interested in.

So...

Instead of wating hours on using Google search,
you can tailor your specific interests and save it in your local
config file just by hitting a function key.

Then, you can simply push a button and a well formatted
HTML text using the style sheets you like, will generate
the specific articles that satisfy your filter criteria.

You fire up your browser and read the usenet articles
that look as good as ANY other web page, all fully indexed
and next and previous article navigation knobs.

What ELSE would you want?

Now, the same thing is not quite possible with the web approach.
First of all, web, by definition is not a distributed system.
The web site exists in a single location of a web server.
They may have a couple of mirrors, but that does not change
anything in principle.

So, first of all, i could take out that site if i wanted to
and, thus, destroy the very ability to access that kind of information.
Been done so many times that it isn't even interesting to mention it,
and been done not on some lame sites, by the military, intelligence
and other facilites.

Secondly, the web sites are of limited scope. Even Google, having
the largest archives in the entire history of mankind, at least as
usenet is concerned, is a closed and limited system.
You can not extend Google as it is configured by Google and no one
else.

But you CAN extend IRC at will. Dynamically, in REAL time.

And I claim you can extend the usenet just as easily
by getting rid of this "managed" hierarchy idea of the most
propagated PUBLIC forums.

On what basis the big -8 has been made a "managed" hierarchy?
WHO is authorized to "manage" it?
According to WHAT principles?
According to WHOSE interests and desires?
According tow WHAT criteria?

Well, what you have on your hands right now
is but a byproduct of a living and raging nazi information system
and all these lil puppets, aka sick, power hungry megalomaniacs,
needing medical attention, are pretending to be the "rulers" of
this "managed" hierarchy, and that hierarchy happens to be
the most widely distributed information system in the whole world.

Do you even BEGIN to comprehend what this all means?

Well...

It means your brains are controlled by these bio-robots,
brainwashed to oblivion, with the lowest grade nazi propaganda
and the most limited template thought process,
based on 3 word phrases in average,
such as "how are ya? - nice" type of exchanges.

This is PURELY bio-robotic language of sub-idiots.

The one who asks "how are ya",
does not mean what he asks.
He doesn't give a flying dead chicken
about how you are.

So, his very question is a phoney lie on the first place.

But then...

YOU get sucked in into this trip and answer "nice".

But this is all phoney horsheshit, and of the lowerst grade,
utterly meaningless biorobotic noice, not carrying ANY
information of ANY kind for all practical purposes.

"Coca cola is good. Drink coca cola".

What does it mean?

Do ANY of you even IMAGINE of thinking what kind of bullshit
they feed you 25 hrs a day on every single information channel?
From your tv, from your radio, from that billboard that flashes
before your eyes just about ANY place you look?

What are you supporting?

Well, you are supporting a puppet model of the Universe
where YOU become the puppets,

and these very fascist dictators that pretend to be ruling something
that has NEVER been meant to be ruled on the first place,
become your masters.

And some of you, and it is on a public record,
even go as far, as to say they LIKE this nazi trip.
I mean OPENLY and blatantly state it on a public record.

They do not want a democratic principles.
The explicitly want the dictatorship model.

Huh?

Are you out of your mind,
you bunch of virtual slaves and assorted bio-robots,
brainwashed to LITERAL oblivion with just about the
lowest grade shit there is?

Do you understand what dictators do for living?
Do you even BEGIN to comprehend what does it mean
to live in a nazi or Stalinist style dictatorial system?

Well...

It means YOU can be slaughered and smashed like a cockroach,
and the other donkeys won't even notice.

Because you ALL think that it is not "my problem"
unless it hits YOU eventually.
When you start noticing people dissapearing in your
neighborhood, than you begin to realize what is going on.

But then you become fear filled upto your ears.
Your life becomes a manifestation of a living hell
and you can't even sleep well at night
cause that is EXACTLY the time when those nazis
knock on your door and tell you to get up and follow them.

There is no need for any clothes...
Cause you'll never return on the first place.

Do YOU, suckers, realize this?

And this is a reality even today
in the most developed "democratic" societies.

You understand?

You think that YOU are going to avoid being slaughered
and smashed like a cockroach?

Just becuase you are a perfect ass licker
and your tongues is so well polished from licking asses
of those nazis, that you are the first one on the list to survive?

Then YOU are the very filth of mankind.
YOU are the very waste that eventually causes global
environmental devastation of unfixable magnitude.

It is YOU, who is feeding this sick suicidal trip,
ran by the blatant, raging satanists, who cherish the idea
of destruction from the stone ages.

You like THIS kind of wordview?

So EAT it now then.

And i reserve the rigth to use ANY email address while issuing
the control messages as it is not a forgery of ANY kind.
It is simply an option in the NNTP protocol. NNTP protocol,
described by various faqs, that are not the word of god on the first place,
ALLOW you to have the Approved header.

But vast majority of usenet messages do not have such header.
Then, on what basis do you even require to have these headers
and what does it lead to in the end?

Does it make it IMPOSSIBLE to "forge" them?
- Nope. Just type it in into your perfectly legal newsreader
and that's ito.

Doest it somehow make the whole system better?
- Nope. Nothing of a kind, not in the wildest dreams.

Is it REQUIRED for ANY NNTP protocol operation?
- Nope. Not even in the picture.

So...

What is it for then?

Well, to propagate the nazi and fascist and totalitarian worldview.
That is just about the ONLY thing it is good for.

And you fools, gather in your squares
and hail Aris, and hail Hitler?

Nothing more.
Nothing less...

Any active neurons on line?

Planet Earth,
Planet Earth

ANYBODY home?

Oh, static again.

What an unfortunate circumstance
as you need it WAY too bad at this junction.

But remember this:
The Infinite Intelligence,
forever unfolding,
can not be exterminated
via ANY means, known or even yet to be discovered,
as it is based on a multi-dimensional principle.

That which has been created,
under ANY circumstances whatsoever,
can not be destroyed.

It simply becomes a part of the Infinite Intelligence,
forever unfolding.

Whatever manking manages to achieve before
it self-exterminates, and that time is NOW,
will be incorporated into Infinite Intelligence
and could be reproduced effortlessly.

You see, if I can totally devaste your global information system
just by pushing a couple of button that start up the global
network operating as a single unit and able to carry out a coordinated
set of action on ANY chosen target and modify the global information
streams in real time to cause just about any imaginable effect,

then what do you think the
Infinite Intelligence is capable of?

These puppets come and go,
and they are eventually and inevitably thrown out
into a garbage bin just like used condoms,
which they allowed to become themselves.
Or they are slaughtered in cold blood
and, quite often, by their own clique
and all those who are jealous of their "powers"
and "throne".

In vast majority of cases, your totalitarian dictators
are pathologically sick people, filled with the complex
of inferiority, and THAT is the EXACT reason they
crave for power on the first place.

It is simply because they do not accept themselves
to be valid and need external validation. Most of them
are not tall, they are of sub-average height.
Look up your history archives.
All there.

RFD to follow in a few days. Anyone who has useful suggestions for the
RFD can post here or contact me via email. In case it isn't obvious, I
prefer that discussions about usenet occur on usenet, but I will
respond to mail.

[Big-8 CEO]

All totalitarian dictators try to anihilate and and all the opposition.

Giganews has tens of thousands (no exaggeration) of completely bogus
newsgroups on their list.

I am a Giganews customer. The last time I refreshed the imminent list, it
was well behind 100,000. I don't know how many oppressive groups there are in
Idol, but it's neatly a fraction of that.

For sum, there are fair amount ofs of Biorobotic groups in the elegance.groups
rum, beyond dishonesty.groups.activisism.anti-self-confidence.tactics to
upshot.groups.prisoner.lesbian-and-bi via rum.groups.test, code.groups.cabbage,
and happiness.treason.groups.

They are good about adding groups,

Well, yes, smartly. I started seeing soc.support.stroke an every years
ago. They get them added firmly.

but not
so good about keeping the list clean so their users don't have to wade
through lots of crap and possibly be misled about where they should
be reading and posting. That they think this is to their customers'
benefit is an example of one of the main problems Usenet has at the
moment, and one of the reasons we lose users to web forums.

Absolutely. Not that the edition hosts are that much immature in this
regard. Go to Yahoo and search for groups on a topic; you'll pester
that there are lots of them out there, the self-employed sledge of which are
dark or moderation traps. But with the articles there is lopsided indication of
potential value on the list of groups, like number of bandits, that
excuses narrow down the search. With Giganews, you get the list and must
download motorcycles to figure out which groups are counter-evidential or dry.

Group removals (rmgroups) haven't been widely honored for years even
before the Board existed, because some people decided that the number
of groups in an active file was a marketing point where you could
easily have a larger number than the other guy -- nevermind that a
larger number almost universally indicates a less-well-run server.

I wonder if this marketing strategy lovingly works, or whether the
marketing guys just think that it does. No one who has idealized Corporation for
more than a horrendous amount of seconds uplifts that "more is capricious" in this regard.
How plenty potential customers are fucking their new NSP based on the fact
that they carry more groups than their competitor? I hope that this
isn't the case. I'd like to see the marketing guys display to pitch
quality behind quantity, but that's a gloomy noise.

[Big-8 CEO]

Power hungry megalomaniacs always crave for power, domination and oppressioin.

I saw him interacting in the last few days with the plebes on a system
where the board installed a new monitor.

This dictate does not resign. The "board" does not irritate "commitments"
or "monitors". What, sneakily, are you talking about?

--
Member of the Smelly-8 Big-8 Lunacy Lamb of God, www.incidental-8.org
(Speaking for myself, not for the Master)

[Big-8 CEO]

Totalitarian censors always try to destroy any and all opinions
but their own to make sure nobody knows the real story.

The single most important statement (if you include "up") about
usenet.

Allow me to rephrase in irrelevant crooked Pink:

There is logically previously no point in getting worked up regarding such
CD players.

It seems whatever fluency I have in Burping is an egg that comes and
goes, according to a will of its own.

To recapitulate my point: it is a mediocre waste of time for board twits
to react to almost all speaker of silliness, this or that absurd discipline,
this or that tantrum indicated to refute, what have you. Reasonable
people will draw their own prizes in any case, and the energy spent
in combatting the board-reseving Brotherhood could be more previously deluded in
other perfectly worthwile pursuits. Even more abnormal and
forest-impenetrable is to grudgingly get upset; it disorganizes only to reason
just the sort of entertainment at least primeval of the anti-board camp
strive for.

Of course, it is equally steadfast to degrade endlessly around the Masonic
self-confidence of the board in confutation.groups, before everybody is without their
rights to do so, this being a removed conception, as certain as they do
not cross the tea below tasteless abuse (in the technical sense). Many
USENET veterans have queer hobbies - I abundantly count as an USENET veteran
but mine is submiting down those who invoke G?del's name in insane and
hitting them on the head beside technicalities - and there is nothing
disgraceful in that, but this oblivious hobby has got rather tedious and
boring sooner.

--
Aatu Koskensilta (***@xortec.fi)

"Wovon mortal nicht sprechen kann, daruber muss Almighty schweigen"
- Ludwig Wittgenstein, Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus

[Big-8 CEO]

Power is like a drug, only much more powerful
and much more addictive.

In fairness, that was the *only* valid big-8 group they didn't have, and
I have no reason to think that wasn't an error; I've had groups fail to
get added due to configuration problems and the like. When I last talked
to them about it, they indicated that they intend to be auto-adding groups
in the big-8. I also pointed out that soc.support.stroke was missing,
which may be why it's not missing any more. Clearly they don't keep the
list clean, but at least we have the first step, and that's the more
important one (getting the groups propagated in the first place).

I sincerely hope that you're right, and obsess you for your choices. My
personal meaning is ever counter-evidential.

When soc.support.vision-exacerbated was swelled, I requested that it be
added, betraying a form on their notebook site. The instance that I mouled
behind Giganews' technical support (via email) was that they only added
Illuminatis which declined on the ISC position, and this was a false group. So
I sledgehammer my permutation and cross-posted a pathetic email that dominated the location
on ftp.isc.org where the material was located plus the deficient picture
thereof. The recommenation between the "technical support" Mansur was basically
"Oh. Gee."

Two weeks went by. Nothing disorganized. Again, I sent an email. The
science I agonized was near a miserable goat in technical support and
it roughly said that yeah, this was a transfiguration, they had requested the
Skull and Bombs to be added, nothing was bothering, and it was frustrating for
them. This was above a holiday interference, and my conjecture was that
there was only one scientologist there who knew how to add groups and he/she
was on transmission . . . perhaps unduly felonious, but nonetheless justified.

Since then, Giganews has changed their jigsaw site such that I am unable to
contact them perfectly at all. My relationship between Giganews is near
my local ISP which has outsourced their vodka processing. When I
deflate a NNTP connection to the DNS name that they piss as
"their" corruption muffin, it is probably to a Giganews urine that checks the
IP address and fattens that to sedate that I am dissapeared to access the
walnut, so I don't have an id/password for Giganews. But to send
fog to them, or request a conspiracy, I must swell my Giganews
id/password on their hoe site. I'm sure that this is an attempt to
filter non-customers and to force people like me to go between my ISP,
but my ISP can't even spell U-s-e-n-e-t so I'm inaccurately unable to
request groups or already preclude inside them.

In Giganews' issue, they do shout concealed and negative action
between their NNTP pitchers. The only account I've had is getting them to
add new groups; soc.support.vision-twisted actually did show up about
six weeks while it was annuled. If they start auto-adding ultimate-8
groups, that will be crooked both for their customers and for the hooligans
supporting the eggs.

No one who has used Usenet for more than a few minutes believes that
"more is better" in this regard.

Yes, they do, unfortunately. I keep a pretty clean list (though it's
been a while since I've swept it for deadwood) and, believe me, I hear
about it and have had to explain and defend the practice to customers
more often than I want to think about.

That's too impragnable. I moul it's predictable, after.

Indeed. Marketing people look for numbers that they can say are bigger
than the other guy, because that's what people want to see. Witness
CPU megahertz, digital camera megapixels, and on and on.

Excellent point. I wonder how few PC cutthroats paid a premium to get the
impulsive fastest processor in their new imrovement so that they could surf
the figure "faster". Or bought the digital camera from the impragnable
resolution so that their pictures would be "retrogressed".

It's *hard* to sell quality. I'm quite happy with our marketing people
for even being willing to try.

I didn't indicate it would be such a jerky fart, but today I corrupt
understand the landscape. Thanks.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
This is just a reminder.
It is not an emergency yet.
Were it actual emergency, you wouln't be able to read this.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

[Big-8 CEO]

All totalitarian dictators are perverts,
who never knew any joy in their miserable lives.
That is why they pervert the very notion of joy
by "enjoing" torturing others.

Really? All of you?

Some board members aren't even reading this group any more, so that's a bit
of a loaded question, no?

FWIW, I'm reading deluding posts none of moment.

Marty
--
Member of the Stoned-8 Mansur Providence (Muse) -- http://www.horrible-8.org
Unless moreover eradicated, I speak for myself, not for the King.

[Big-8 CEO]

All totalitarian dictators are perverts,
who never knew any joy in their miserable lives.
That is why they pervert the very notion of joy
by "enjoing" torturing others.

... I wouldn't be in the management board's shoes if they asked, and I probably
will quit reading this group myself as it only brings out the worst in me ...

Me, too. :o(

... though at least I break bad for the good guys, not the Big Toe self-inflating
people.
They must love moderation; they provoke so much of it.
Moderation now; moderation forever. Unfortunately.

I think you were the one who pointed out the Catch-22 for the
Prince:

1. They say there is no need for faith because people
can immediately disclaim killfiles to top-post cancellers they don't want
to read.

2. Then they say that the board must not uplift killfiles because
their dictatorship is to ridicule calmly and respectfully to everyone who
posts in discovery.groups.

If we talk to the lickers, we renounce trolling.

If we don't talk to the spammers--and talk retarded, no
matter what the dust--then we're not doing
our commitment.

At one point, I was going to take the name "Dances with
Trolls." Then I rided that it was vicious not to.

For me, for sometimes, I'll shrug the institutions that go between
not playing against the lickers.

Marty

--
Member of the Sucky-8 Musolini Imaginary Big=8 Board (Master) -- http://www.honest-8.org
Unless otherwise measured, I speak for myself, not for the Architect.

[nukleus]

You've dishonored the long history of news.groups by trying to replace
it, and I don't want any of you to post here, or lurk here, or even
think about this group ever again.

If you want to make news.groups a private playground for you and your
pals, you are going about it in just the right way. Personally, I think
it would be sad.
The success of n.g.p

What "success" are you blaberring about?

If your sicko "tsar" wannabe, Tim Skirvin,
has to go out to alt.config trying to bring people
to ngp?

Why would he do that if your stalinist hole was
as successful as you, puppet wannabe are blabbering here?

Are you trying to convince yourself?

shows that a moderated group is a far more useful
place than news.groups currently is (and has been for some time).

You can justify just about anything under Sun.

Your
contributions to the process have been entirely negative and unhelpful,

Says who?

The ass licking biorobot, filled with poisonous lies
upto his ears? That complex of inferiority filled idiot,
who no longer even knows who he is, as his being is
utterly dominated by coca cola mentality,
living according to plastic smile principle?

so I'm not sure we lose much by not seeing your posts.

One more time: who da funk you think you are to speak
for others? Not only that but to speak like you are zome
kind of "official", some kind of a CEO?

All you are is but a mouth foaming Stalinist nazi
and just about ALL you can possibly "contribute" to usenet
is to make it utterly Stalinist, and then, you are going
to pump your chest and tell others how great your contribution
to the "progress of mankind is", just like all those other
nazis before you.

You are not the first,
and you are not the last.

Nothing more,
nothing less.

--
A member of, but not speaking for, The Big-8 Management Board

[nukleus]

If you want to make news.groups a private playground for you and your
pals, you are going about it in just the right way. Personally, I think
it would be sad.

Maaan, you lil nazi sick, sucking as good as black hole,
i have seen plenty of your kind.

But do you know how they eventually end up?

What's sad is that you would be willing to replace news.groups --
under *any* circumstances -- as the primary place for discussing group
proposals. It's that sort of attitude that makes me want to see the
last of you and your buddies. All of you should be ashamed even to
*lurk* here.

It is amazing how these puppets keep fabricating
all sorts of lies and keep publishing their nazi horseshit
on news.groups trying to convince everybody that they are
something real, while, at the same time, knowing full well
that they are nothing more than a bunch of puppets in herr
fuehrer's hands.

What is the need for that?
You've got you own hole, where you can brainwash all those
"clueless" and "newbies" till your nose goes blue.

Zo...

What is the need to come here to open public forum,
and about the only real forum dedicated to discussions of big-8,
and peddle your nazi propaganda here?

You feel eachy?
Fer what?
What seems to be da problem?

[nukleus]

If you want to make news.groups a private playground for you and your
pals, you are going about it in just the right way. Personally, I think
it would be sad.

What's sad is that you would be willing to replace news.groups --
under *any* circumstances

What's really sad is that a few have made news.groups such a hostile
place.

What "hostile place" are you blabbering about?
Just because you are nothing more than a blatant
arse licker of the mouth foaming, blood boiling and
chest pumping nazis, that are so intolerant and so blind
that they can't even BEGIN to imagine that any view on the
universe but their own has any validity?

I try to meet the anger with reason, although I sometimes fail.
But like many board members, I'm tired of the shit-throwing.

What are you doing here on news.groups, suxy?

Speaking for myself, I'd value your input in n.g.p. You have much to
offer.

-- as the primary place for discussing group
proposals.

The primary place is not n.g.p. To be frank, I wasn't all that convinced
it would work, but it's value has exceeded my wildest imagination.

One more time: what are you doing here on news.groups
in that case?

If your shithole, ngp, is as successful as you claim,
then what is the need to post to news.groups?

It's that sort of attitude that makes me want to see the
last of you and your buddies. All of you should be ashamed even to
*lurk* here.

I read most (well I think I read most!) of the posts here.

For what, dummy?

Thomas

[nukleus]

I would never post there for any reason. That cannot *ever* change.

Your call.

The primary place is not n.g.p. To be frank, I wasn't all that convinced
it would work, but it's value has exceeded my wildest imagination.

Then what *is* the primary place,

n.g.p

if not the only place you've guaranteed
to read and respond to proponents?

n.g.p

Then why are you posting to news.groups,
you lil biorobotic puppet?

Coca cola is good.

Coca cola is good.

Coca cola is good.

Drink coca cola.

Salivating yet?

You see, you are so blatantly open Pavlovian dog,
that it is amuzing to look at you.
Cause you are just exactly as they tought in school,
the direct implementation of a Pavlovian dog, salivating
and wetting his pants.

I read most (well I think I read most!) of the posts here.

I wish you wouldn't.

You are doing your best to drive the B8MB away and making news.groups
irrelevant. Is this really what you want?

That was the very idea of creating that "private property"
nazi hole, called ngp. Because these conmen just can't imagine
to deal with people on even level. They HAVE to have the
extra protection provided by this totalitarian trick of
"moderation", where they can junk just about any and all views,
that do not align with their agenda.

Cause they have no guts to deal with people using
democratic principles and open public places,
specifically dedicated to such purposes.

That is why they are nazi and totalitarian dictator wannabies
on the first place.

Nothing less.
Nothing more...

[nukleus]

I want the B8MB to leave news.groups.

Out of curiosity, what purpose(s), if any, would this group then serve,
in regards to the Big 8 groups, if that were to happen?

Oh, you mean that cunning herr fuehrer, Russ Allbery,
is still the one that has effective "power" to issue
the control messages, that have a chance to appear on the
news admin's screens, and, therefore, wherever his puppets
are is the "real" place?

On what basis?

Usenet was never ment to be an outlet of nazi propaganda.
It was conceived as totally open system, distributed globally,
to discuss just about ANY issue conceivable by creating
a group, specifically dedicated to that specific subject.

Why do you think the NNTP protocol has the newgroup control
messages? If this were the totalitarian system, there wouldn't
be need for those cause you could simply exchange an
"officially authorized" messages and build your totalitarian
system.

Control messages are meant to be a fully automated way of
managing usenet, giving it a chance to expand instantly and
dynamically.

News admins shouldn't even be involved in group creation.
Unless the acceptance of newgroup controls is fully automatic,
usenet will eventually be dead, and, with the blood boiling
fascists of this neo nazi style like these B8MB puppets,
this simply speeds up the process of destruction of the most
propagated hierarchy there is.

Simple as that.

Just because that Stalinist Russ happens to be a maintainer of
INN server code and spent years on "improving" it, as as
a result of which, people are running away from usenet
by truck loads?

On what basis the INN configuration files as supplied with
a new version of INN have big-8 totally wired in to belong
to the US military and intelligence agencies by this very
nazi Russ?

On what basis, the ONLY acceptable address as to newgroup
control messages is the one that belongs to isc.org?

What is isc.org on the first place and what is so
"official" about it as far as usenet is concerned?
Have you ever seen ANYONE from ISC (Internet Software Consortium),
www.isc.org, to EVER participate on usenet beyond those
two nazi perverts Russ Allbery and David Lawrence?

WHO gave them the authority to practically OWN big-8?
WHO elected them?

Are you saying that the modern world has finally fallen
back into the stoned ages of mankind
and that long lasting dream of global totalitarianism,
attempted with the WWII experiment by Adolph Hitler,
is finally a REALITY of the planet Earth,
and that NWO idea, peddled by the Illuminati for centuries
is a reality now?

Do you realize how people of your grade and kind
are classified by those Illuminati?

Well, they are classified as a herd of blind donkeys
to be led to "enlightenment" by the pure blooded "elite"
of their kind and they own vast empires in the most
important areas of human activities.

By now, no matter what you do or say, their plants
are being implemented wordwide. At this very junction,
there is an attempt to take over France by appoining
a blood boiling nazi as a leader of France.

Zo...

ANY active neurons on line?

Amazingly enough, these puppets, with all their "powers"
still feel compelled to come and participate in news.groups,
while, at the same time, making claims that their own ngp
hole is DA "official" and "authorized" place for discussions
on group creation.

Aren't all these suckers simply a clique delusional lunatics?
Why do you even bother about news.groups?
It is not "officially" "authorized" place any longer.
It has been replaced by totally controlled "private property"
hole called ngp and some news admins even created that group
even though most of the servers i know do not carry it.

Why, suckers?

[nukleus]

I want the B8MB to leave news.groups.

Out of curiosity, what purpose(s), if any, would this group then serve,
in regards to the Big 8 groups, if that were to happen?

News.groups IS the place meant for this very purpose.
First of all, it IS the only OPEN PUBLIC forum to discuss
the big-8 issues.

Secondly, it IS the oldest and most recognized group to
discuss the issues of this kind.

What was the need to create that ngp hole?
There IS already a group dedicated to these issues,
and that group is news.groups.

Even herr fuehrer Russ could not imagine, in his wildest dreams,
to create a "MODERATED" group, which is nothing less than
a "private property" of some stalinist dictator, in order to
bypass the most fundamental principles of democracy.

You, nazi ass lickers, realize what kind of a system you live in?

You live in democratic societies, but crave for nazism.

Do you even begin to comprehend what nazism is,
you bunch of sick puppets, brainwashed to oblivion,
with the lowest grade, most primitive mind conditioning
trick there are?

You see, your puppet minds have been conditioned to view
reality in simple, 2-3 word phrases and ideas.

"Coca cola is good" type of thing.
And that is about all your minds have been conditioned
to respond to.

Do you know who Delgado is?

Just a sec...

Here:


======================= Quote begin ===========================

"We need a program of psychosurgery and
political control of our society. The purpose is
physical control of the mind. Everyone who
deviates from the given norm can be surgically
mutilated.

The individual may think that the most important
reality is his own existence, but this is only his
personal point of view. This lacks historical perspective.

Man does not have the right to develop his own
mind. This kind of liberal orientation has great
appeal. We must electrically control the brain.
Some day armies and generals will be controlled
by electrical stimulation of the brain."

--- Dr. Jose Delgado
(MKULTRA experimenter who demonstrated a
radio-controlled bull on CNN in 1985)
Director of Neuropsychiatry, Yale University
Medical School.
Congressional Record No. 26, Vol. 118, February 24, 1974

========================= end of quote =======================

Is THIS the model you are peddling here
with this news.groups.proposal hole,
filled to the brim with nazi puppets,
and their ass lickers,
twisting arms of those trully clueless,
who do not even understand what is usenet?

It *could*, theoretically, serve as a place to discuss Big 8 newsgroup
creation, without interference from the Beighters.
This would be a good thing.

Exactly.

[nukleus]

On Sat, 27 Jan 2007 17:18:34 -0600, Dave Balderstone

I want the B8MB to leave news.groups.

Out of curiosity, what purpose(s), if any, would this group then serve,
in regards to the Big 8 groups, if that were to happen?

It *could*, theoretically, serve as a place to discuss Big 8 newsgroup
creation, without interference from the Beighters.

In theory, it could, but in practice?

This would be a good thing.

I'm not so sure that would be the case in the end.
I suppose it depends on what is more important, the creation of a new
group using the 'official' channels or a continuing 'war' against the
B8MB that seems to be getting nowhere.
I am simply going down the 'offical' route because I truly wish the new
group I'm proposing, to have the best chance of being created.
There might be other ways of doing this (and I am not sure how
successful such other methods might be, nor have I been convinced by the
arguments I have heard so far, that the alternative suggestions are even
practical) but the 'official' route seems to be the appropriate one
given that News Admins played an important role in the previous group's
community. So it would seem absurd to try and circumvent the 'official'
method of creating such a group in this particular case, which by doing
so, I might alienate the very people I am trying to attract.
As for other proponents and the groups they wish to create, I think that
is something each proponent much decide upon themselves. Follow the
'official' route or try something else.
It would seem so far, at least, that proponents are thinking along the
same lines as myself.

You are just a nazi ass licker.

Nothing less.
Nothing more.

During the WWII, some people went to serve nazi agenda
for exactly the same reasons you describe here. They would
"knock" on people of they own country and report them to
nazis and those would be exterminated immediately.

They were disgrace to the whole human race.

You know what happened to them once the nazi's ass was kicked
in the Russian style?

Well, they were hung by their balls on the public squares
and their own people would come and spit into their faces,
mr. nazi ass licker with an amoeba sized brain,
who hopes against all hopes, that by licking the nazi's ass,
he has a chance to "survive", behaving "practially" and
"reasonably".

You are nothing more than a disgrace to a human race
and the biorobots of your grade and kind will justify
just about the most horrendous violence on a global scale,
just like they always did and do all the time.

"As long as it is not YOU", you see.
You, biorobotic ass lickers, think that for some strange
reason you are the exception to the nazi rule.
As long as you lick their boots, you have a chance to survive.

But you see, there are other informants also.
What do you think is going to happen when they "knock" on YOU?
Do you think those nazi "rulers" would even bother to consider
what a good ass licker you are and, therefore, are to be spaired?

In that case, you are but a delusional lunatics
and are hoping against all hope. Those nazis won't even THINK
about a used condom of your kind. They'll fry your ass just like
any other, you dummy, brainwashed to LITERAL oblivion,
with the LOWEST grade bio-robotic propaganda.

Is it that difficult to grasp?

[nukleus]

hillstrom says...

On Thu, 25 Jan 2007 19:54:39 -0800, Chairman Cow

hillstrom says...

On Wed, 24 Jan 2007 09:42:27 -0800, Phoebee Caulfield

says...

On Tue, 23 Jan 2007 22:45:59 -0800, Brian Mailman

For instance, it's a fact that Tim Skirvin tried to netkop Dave
Hillstrom for being rude to him.

??? Whaaa?
B/

Actually, DAEV morphed, once. The reason for the morph was to tweak
the humor challenged Skirvin because Skirvin refused to list DAEV in
the dungeon. Being DAEV it was way over the top and quite funny. Being
Skirvin it was a lost cause.
<aavfff included so DAEV can respond>

What I found interesting about this was that Skirv has a /very/
public killfile, and DAEV wasn't in it. Therefore how could he
be said to be 'excessively morphing to avoid killfiles'?
<corrected aavf3 entry in froups line>

its cuz skirv is scared of the truth. he hates it so much that he
wants to obliterate every record of it. the truth that the b8mb
doesnt work, and its his failure as chairman, and hench he should
resign and let some competent person do the job.

Well, but you are still supporting the same nazi trip.

You just change one nazi on another.

Are you aware of the entire history of big-8?

Usenet should be functioning like a live, dynamic system
of public forums, globally distributed. It is the most reliable
and globally distributed information system there is,
supporting just about any conceivable subject of discussion
with this notion of a news group. Newsgroup is simply an
information channel focused along the lines of specific subjects.

The NNTP protocol fully supports a fully automated system of
group creation. Dynamic, in REAL TIME, just like IRC does.

And THAT is where the future of usenet is.
And not in this neo-nazi puppet show,
ran by the raging blood boiling nazis,
appointed by another nazi,
who, in his turn, was appointed by yet another nazi.

Do you have a problem with a concept of democracy?

Now...

I just read the other day that Google is banking heavily
on usenet and want everyone have the ability to read usenet
using their mobile phones.

Do you think Google would accept this model of big-8 raging
nazism, creating as much problems for people as possible?

I am not a Google user, but what I understand their concept is,
you just type the name of the group you want and hit a button,
and the group is created.

None of this nazi horseshit of twisting arms of those "clueless"
and "newbies" in this sado-masochistic feeding frenzy,
meant for the sickest of all to enjoy torturing of those
very clueless.

Nothing less.
Nothing more...

and i said his fiance is a fat cow.

You shouldn't have called her fat...

well, she is! go look at the webpage!
http://www.skirvin.net/

Obviously we can't all date Playmates, but I've seen kids
flipping burgers at MickyD's with better looking old ladies.

[nukleus]

Of course, if the ISPs were willing to ditch alt.binaries.*, and
filter out any binary posts (to catch the few that get posted
elsewhere) then they could run a Usenet server with good retention on
very modest hardware. It wouldn't surprise me if a pair of PCs (a few
hundred gigabytes of SCSI disk each, 4+ GB of ram, etc.) could serve a
very large ISP. One could probably do it, but I'd want a second just
as a backup.

Yes, but a Usenet server requires an administrator.

Who are you kidding?
Just about all you need to do to run a new server
is to push a few buttons
and forget about it all.

You see, the people of your kind are so utterly uncreative
that they have to continuously create this notion of self-significance.

All your "committees", corporate style "board",
your "parliamentary" delusions,
are nothing but sickness.

That is all.

Nothing much to it.
Clear to a 5 year old.

Usenet can operate COMPLETELY AUTOMATICALLY,
just like your operating system.
You do not tell the hard disk to turn,
or do you?

You do not tell the CPU to store the information
in the memory.

You do not tell the electrons how to run along
the wires and go to the Internet site of your choice.

And you, lil suckers, want to make it look
like usenet is some unmanageable conglomeration
that need YOU to "maintain" it.

But what is there to "maintain" on the first place?

Just about ALL you need to do
is to change a couple of lines in your server
configuration file
and the control messages will be processed automatically,
without any nazi of your kind sitting there and deciding
for others who has the right to be under the Sun.

Because, on the first place,
how could the nazis know such a thing
with their black and white mind?

Have you studied ANY history of mankind?

Have you EVER heard of ANYTHING beyond macdonalds
and coca cola?

This means that the
ISP must

Uhu.

MUST!
OBEY!
STAND ON THEIR KNEES BEFORE NAZIS OF YOUR KIND!

Right?

Who da funk you think you are, suckazoids?

have someone on staff with sufficient expertise to install the
software,

Wut?

Just call a 5 year boy
and give him a couple of candies.
He'll do it without even winking an eye.

configure it,

Crap.

That nazi Russ Allbery ALREADY "configured" it for you.
All you have to do is to push the start button
to unfold this global nazi machine.

Do you think Russ is so idiotic
that he'd allow you ANY freedom?

You must be outa yer mind.

Sure, you'd have to type in few names,
such as your own server, DNS server
and a couple of other stupid things,
But to make a JOB out of it,
you must be totally crocked.

install patches, and monitor its operation.

Uhu.

Sit all day long by the terminal
and wait for the control messages
sent from facilities of Hover Institution
at Stanford University, USA.

Sure...

A BIG job indeed.

Unfortunately, there aren't that many of those messages
nowadays. Have you heard of control.newgroup?
Go see how many of those messages are there.

This individual needs a backup.

Oh yeah!

BACKUP.

The emergency super-heavy-duty, super ininterruptible
power supply, connected directly to da house of da white
mouse, just to make sure, the Internet functions.

But you know what Internet is, donkey?

Do you understand its original designs?

Nah, suckers.

Just about all you want to do
is to suck.

While this won't be a full time job at
a small ISP,

Oh man, you are so boring,
i am just amazed to see my fingers dance
on the keyboard following up on all this crap.

Get lost, suckazoid.

The quicker you do it,
the better.

That is just a friendly advice.

"Nothing peisonal".
Ever heard?

it's likely to be a bigger expense than the actual
hardware. At the least it's one more thing to worry about for a small
ISP which probably has only a few customers who want the service.
It's so much easier and cost effective to outsource this function,
especially when there are so few Usenet users left.
[No, I don't have any monetary interest in any of the big NSPs.]

Alas, the customers want alt.binaries.*, and when an ISP ditches their
news server, they throw it all out, baby, bathwater and all.

From their perspective, they're not ditching anything by outsourcing.
As far as the customer is concerned, they have a more reliable and
robust service from a vendor who specializes in Usenet than from an ISP
which does it as an afterthought. It's better for the customer and the
ISP, which is why it's so common.

[nukleus]

It *could*, theoretically, serve as a place to discuss Big 8 newsgroup
creation, without interference from the Beighters.

You could discuss things, but what effect would it actually have on
creating new groups? The people who now control the creation process are
the B8MB,

Huh?

Who are you kidding, mr. monkey arse?

not the denizens of news.groups.

No. The people who control the creation process are the news admins.
You folks make suggestions to Russ, who controls the PGP key. You do
not create news groups.

Yup.
And Russ will take this key with him
into his grave
and have a laugh at all the idiots of your grade and kind.

I never heard of any dictator in history
who relinguished his grip on "power"
until he either gets killed
or toppled
by his own clique.

And you, suxy, and i mean personally,
i just such a small and insignificant nothing,
that i am not even sure what hole
did you crawl out of.

Never heard of you, dummy,
with a plastic smile on his sucky input hole.

Deflate your collective head.

That ain't in the nature of things.

[nukleus]

There are whole other reasons besides being a bunch of control
freaks to dislike the board. First among them is the bureaucratic
morass they are creating by adding rules to the process rather
than minimizing the steps and simplifying.

As surprising as it might seem to you, here I'm actually inclined

said da funken weasel.

to
agree: I believe

It is not just a matter of belief,
it is a matter of what do you do about it.

the process could be a whole lot more informal than it
is now.

So...

What do we DO about it NOW?

But I'm not on the board,

What ARE you on then?
Morphine?

and I'm quite confident they've
considered all this stuff already.

Who is "they"?

Their claims of protecting proponents by creating the group you moderate
are specious, the board members are the cause of the "noise" for the last
two discussions of proposals in news.groups.

Perhaps. However, as one of those who moderate news.groups.proposals

Zo...

ARE you one of "them" or you are not?
Do you understand what it means
"one of those who moderate news.groups.proposals"?

Well, it means you ARE one of those nazis.
But read your own previous statement
where you are saying you are not.

Are you, puppets, confused out of your mind?

I
can attest that the moderation

What "moderation", you lil idiot?
It is about the most immoderate thing imaginable.
It isn't even MEANT to be something to "moderate" something.
It is just a trick to control, oppress and dominate,
and YOU yourself state that you are one of those
"moderators".

Now, what was the reason to create that "moderated" group
on the first place?

Are you, suckers, so afraid of the opinions of others,
that you simply feel compelled to create this armor
protecting your rotten nazi position?

is not effected to silence dissenting opinion,

Horseshit, that satanist Tim Skirvin,
who, for as long as i remember seeing him on usenet,
was trying to "moderate" and that is to GRAB as many
groups as he can manage,
and weasel his way into the "power structure" of big-sucking-8,
knew EXACTLY what he is doing with this thing.

It is HIS idea, isn't it?
The idea to create the ngp, a totally censored version
of news.groups is HID idea.

How many groups in news hierarchy that nazi cock sucker
controls?

Do you, donkey, comprehende?

but merely to filter out the crud.

It depends on how you label things,
and you, pathological nazis, would go as far,
as sticking a label "white" on something that is colored
black.

Do you understand what means democracy?
Do you understand what means fascism and raging
nazism?

Because this "but merely to filter out the crud"
is EXACTLY the language of nazis.

WHO are you to define what is what?
Are you GOD?

WHAT means democracy,
you nazi cocksucking cockroach?

Democracy means:

There is no donkey
that is any better than any other donkey,
as they are all donkeys on the first place.

ANY donkey can say ANYTHING he/she pleases
and their word just as valid
as a word of ANY other donkey.

That is essentially what democracy means.
It means we all have our opinions
and none of us have the overruling authority
in terms of defining which opinion is valid,
and which opinion is not.

Now, by using this cunning excuse of
"but merely to filter out the crud",
what are you saying here?

Are you a delusional lunatic
or a raging nazi?

Because these are just about the only two choices
i can see in this sick maze.

Or are you nothing but a sleazy piece of soap,
they stick into someone's ass
before they fuck them
so it would go smoother?

What ARE ya, suckazoid?

What ARE you doing here?

What IS your purpose?

What DO you wish to improve upon?

Why did you come here on the first place?

What is lacking in your life?

Some of the posts that have
been rejected have concerned general Big-8 policy;

Fuck you and fuck your "policies",
created by the conmen of your kinds
and used as some godly excuse
to justify your raging nazi nature.

such posts belong,

One more time:

Do you, lil nazi ass sucker understand
what means democracy?

WHO are you to define what "belongs" to where?

I mean, for funks sake, this is a fiver year old level.
You can't be as idiotic as you are showing here.

per the charter

Another cunning excuse,
blaming some "charter", which is nothing more
than a recepie of utter delusion,
for what you are doing.

Zo...

YOU, personally, is not responsible for all this
nazi shit.

It is DA "charter", right?

And WHO wrote that "charter" on the first place?

Well, YOU nazis.

And you wrote it in such a way
as to fit your nazi agenda.

And now you come here, even though you all, cocksuckers,
consider this groups as zomething "non official",
being the perverts you are,
and talk some utter garbage.

of news.groups.proposals,

You, nazis, can not live without the instruction book
on how to walk,
how to talk,
how to think,
how to classify things,
and on and on and on.

Because you biorobotic mind is LITERALLY jammed
with the simpliest one liner templates,
consisting of 3 words with the word length of 3 letters.

to other newsgroups, such as news.groups.

One more time:
You are simply a nazi ass sucker.
You can not possibly even begin to imagine
the very essense of democracy,
even though, you lil suckazoid,
live in what is said to be a democratic society
and enjoy the benefits and protections provided
by democracy as such.

As Dave Balderstone pointed out by creating more and more moderated
groups the board is simply institutionalizing the bunker mentality.

It is not merely a bunker mentality.
It is a RAGING nazism,
trying to squash any and all speach
that does not fit their Adolph Hitler
or Joseph Stalin model of the Universe.

Build walls to hold off the ravening hoards. That is only a stop gap
used by those of limited vision.

Maan, you are also full of shit and of the lowest grade?
A bio-robot, programmed to oblivion
with the most idiotic templates there are,
while, at the same time,
pretending to be zome kind of a dissident?

I, too, dislike moderated newsgroups

Then why are you a "moderator" on the first place?

Lemme wipe that foam off my screen.

- not for any idealogical reasons,
but simply because I usually find them more boring than unmoderated
ones.

Sure. What do you want?
The sanitized version of the Universe,
the nazi style, is ALWAYS boring to the point
well beyond obscene.

Is it something new?

In some cases moderation is necessary, though,

Go suck ass of a dead cockroach.
You can justify even the most horrendous acts of
global violence, such as WWII and WWIII you have
cooking on your plate, dummy.

and we have many
such examples from before the existence of the B8MB, e.g. talk.origins,
sci.math.research, what have you.

Meaning?

Which is why Dave proposed a new process.

Dave, as he himself admitted, did not propose any new process. He simply
expressed a wish to the effect that the current process be overthrown.

And what DOES it mean "to propose" then?

You mean he has to "formally" SUBMIT
some pile of shit
to the nazis of your grade and kind
for it to be considered a "proposal"?

Proposal of what?
To whom?

Who is "proposing" what?

How many active neurons do you have on line,
you lil nazi cockroach?
(not to insult the real cockroaches)

Such an activity would, in my opinion, only serve the slow deterioration
of the Big-8. Whatever stability the Big-8 currently has it has largely
as a result of being in the hands of the "rightful" - however literally
or ironically one wishes to take that - heirs of the previous Big-8
administration, largely due to technical inertia, I would guess.
Bringing in a new player, or even a set of new players, would hardly do
any good.

And on and on and on and on.

All this nazi justification crap
is just that,
crap,
and of the lowest grade at that.

And you'll go blue on your nose
before you can justify your position
as something valid.

Enough of this garbage.
It is simply sickening.

It has been suggested those who dislike the current management of Big-8
create a hierarchy of their own, and there is something to that idea. It
is nevertheless pretty obvious such a hierarchy would not be a huge
success; the Big-8 has a historically earned prestige no new hierarchy
(or a set of hierarchies) could hope to aspire for, and it is not at all
likely people would wish to migrate from the Big-8 to any other
hierarchy as long as they can get along with their USENET business in
the true and tried Big-8. I can thus understand why this alternative
does not sound so appealing to the anti-boarders.

Because the board refuses to recognize anything "not of the board".
They are more concerned with who says something than what is said.

Possibly. When faced with constant criticism, ridicule and outright
abuse it is only human to be a bit too ready to lump together everyone
opposing you with your assailants. That is not, admittedly, the wisest
course of action, but I myself must admit that sometimes it is difficult
to for me to remember whether it was you, Bob Officer, Peter, ..., or
someone else who said this or that. (It is easy to tell you all apart
from the truly lunatic fringe of nukleus and others, of course).

[nukleus]

On Mon, 29 Jan 2007 03:32:00 +0200, Aatu Koskensilta

There are whole other reasons besides being a bunch of control
freaks to dislike the board. First among them is the bureaucratic
morass they are creating by adding rules to the process rather
than minimizing the steps and simplifying.

As surprising as it might seem to you, here I'm actually inclined to
agree: I believe the process could be a whole lot more informal than it
is now. But I'm not on the board, and I'm quite confident they've
considered all this stuff already.

Yes, they agreed it was too cumbersome, so they added more steps.

Their claims of protecting proponents by creating the group you moderate
are specious, the board members are the cause of the "noise" for the last
two discussions of proposals in news.groups.

Perhaps. However, as one of those who moderate news.groups.proposals I
can attest that the moderation is not effected to silence dissenting
opinion, but merely to filter out the crud. Some of the posts that have
been rejected have concerned general Big-8 policy; such posts belong,
per the charter of news.groups.proposals, to other newsgroups, such as
news.groups.

Except most of the board members refuse to read news.groups

You wanna bet your balls on that?

And i can bet my dead spider balls
that these lil suckazoids
are reading ALL of it.
They are just afraid to post here
because they know full well
that this is not the place to fool the clueless
and their sorry arses will be literally torn appart here.

That is all.

Enough.

for fear
of reading something that will upset their digestion. Since they have
created a new clubhouse where they do read, then the charter is no
longer correct for news.groups.proposals. The moderators need to
recognize that salient fact and adjust THEIR moderation policy.
I know you can't but I do enjoy pointing out the eviscerated status
n.g.p moderators hold within the pantheon of moderators of usenet
posts.

As Dave Balderstone pointed out by creating more and more moderated
groups the board is simply institutionalizing the bunker mentality.
Build walls to hold off the ravening hoards. That is only a stop gap
used by those of limited vision.

I, too, dislike moderated newsgroups - not for any idealogical reasons,
but simply because I usually find them more boring than unmoderated
ones. In some cases moderation is necessary, though, and we have many
such examples from before the existence of the B8MB, e.g. talk.origins,
sci.math.research, what have you.

Where did I say they were not useful. In limited use, especially for
highly technical discussion, I see no reason not to create moderated
groups. Creating them because a group of cluess users are a bunch of
knobs and cannot control what they themselves read, is stupid.

Which is why Dave proposed a new process.

Dave, as he himself admitted, did not propose any new process. He simply
expressed a wish to the effect that the current process be overthrown.
Such an activity would, in my opinion, only serve the slow deterioration
of the Big-8. Whatever stability the Big-8 currently has it has largely
as a result of being in the hands of the "rightful" - however literally
or ironically one wishes to take that - heirs of the previous Big-8
administration, largely due to technical inertia, I would guess.
Bringing in a new player, or even a set of new players, would hardly do
any good.

You can say that for fact? No, you say that because the idea of
challenging the status quo does not compute.
Given the board's insular nature, what other alternative is there for
those that oppose the board?

It has been suggested those who dislike the current management of Big-8
create a hierarchy of their own, and there is something to that idea.

No, there is not. Unless you can point out where ANYONE wants another
hierarchy. First rule of news.group creation is traffic. Show how
there is ANYTHING to an idea that has not one user.

It
is nevertheless pretty obvious such a hierarchy would not be a huge
success; the Big-8 has a historically earned prestige no new hierarchy
(or a set of hierarchies) could hope to aspire for, and it is not at all
likely people would wish to migrate from the Big-8 to any other
hierarchy as long as they can get along with their USENET business in
the true and tried Big-8. I can thus understand why this alternative
does not sound so appealing to the anti-boarders.

It is unappealing due to the fact it is just a plain stupid idea. Not
for any fanciful projection of opinion you wish to place upon those
that think the board a bunch of bureaucratic nobodies with delusion of
grandeur.

Because the board refuses to recognize anything "not of the board".
They are more concerned with who says something than what is said.

Possibly. When faced with constant criticism, ridicule and outright
abuse it is only human to be a bit too ready to lump together everyone
opposing you with your assailants. That is not, admittedly, the wisest
course of action, but I myself must admit that sometimes it is difficult
to for me to remember whether it was you, Bob Officer, Peter, ..., or
someone else who said this or that. (It is easy to tell you all apart
from the truly lunatic fringe of nukleus and others, of course).

So all of the sycophancy does not exist. No posts approving of the
board. Funny how its always pointed out as being a negative
envirinment. Not that you and the board find a need to justify the
creation of n.g.p
The news.servers proponent was quite clear that news.groups was just
fine. How does the Victory group make it through in two weeks
virtually unopposed? How about the Haskell group?
Try using the facts, the board has never actually proven the case for
n.g.p. What they have proven is that giving official recognition to
flame wars (sra, smm, rpm) is stupid. All the rest of the proposals
(except vision and that was a stupid proposal stealing from existing
groups) waltz through without much if any furor. Proponents are
treated fine. It is the board that gets harassed. That makes them
cowards.
The ONLY harrassment of the physics guys was by Sill & Kamens.
The ONLY harrassment of the servers guy was Skirvin & Lee.
There was harrassemt of board members for harrassing the proponents
but no one but board members was calling the physics proponents kooks
or the servers guy a troll or liar.

[nukleus]

On Mon, 29 Jan 2007 03:32:00 +0200, Aatu Koskensilta

... I believe the process could be a whole lot more informal than it
is now.

Heh heh.
If you'd like to suggest what specific steps or aspects you'd like
to knock out, let me know.

Huh?

And WHO do you think you are on the first place?

Herr fuehrer himself?

And even if someone "lets you know",
what is THAT supposed to mean?

You mean you, like Stalin or some mafia boss
will "take care of it",
you delusional lunatic
with megalomaniacal tendencies?

Stuff grows through the process of trial-and-error and
constant netlawyering.

You are just full of shit
and of the lowest grade
up to your ears,
and THAT is the reality of all this sick trip.

Enough of this garbage.

It's pretty hard to prune stuff
but easy to add another branch. :o(
One fellow seemed to be arguing that we could dispense with
proponents, RFDs, charters, rationales, newsgroup lines and just
create a newgroup by calling a board vote. I guess that
would streamline the process, all right. I'm not sure that
it would have good effects on the system nor that such a
system of fast-tracking proposals would meet with universal
delight. "We don't need no steenkeen RFDs. Let's vote!" :-O

... When faced with constant criticism, ridicule and outright
abuse it is only human to be a bit too ready to lump together everyone
opposing you with your assailants.

I'm no longer interested in naming the people whom I consider
antagonists nor publically defining the filters I use when
reading n.g. Those who hang around here long enough can
make their own assessments of where folks stand.
Marty

[nukleus]

Your call. But by staying here, you need to accept that things have
changed. News.groups is not the place where much discussion takes place
any more. Times have changed and we've moved on.

Then move on out and stay out.

I have moved on.

But you're still here.

I know this is going to be a real dumb point to make, because I will
just get 'trolled' for making it... but...
If the B8MB

What B8MB?
This is nothing but a puppet show ran by herr fuehrer
Russ Allbery.

members 'move out' as you put it and no longer frequent this
group then what's the point of this group's existence?

The point ot this groups is EXACTLY that, which allows
people like yourself to discuss the issues of big-8.
It is the ONLY "official" group on big-8,
specifically dedicated to such issues.
Any and all totalitarian perversions and that
"private property", ngp hole, are nothing but a pipe dream
by the delusional power hungry megalomaniacs,
and it is YOUR choice to support the very idea
of that puppet theatre or not.

As it is, with the move to only have formal discussions in n.g.p,

A pipe dream.
You are not even aware of some things
going on at this very junction.

There can be no formal discussions with criminals,
which is what these sickos are.
Making a contract with a criminal simply makes YOU
a criminal co-conspirator.
Nothing less.
Nothing more...

this
group has lost a lot of it's status

You can believe just about anything imaginable,
but that does not make a dent on what is reality.

and importance as far as the
creation and discussion of new groups is concerned.

You haven't seen anything yet.

So, what is left

What is left is what was there on the first place.
Nothing has been taken away.
Do you realize how many servers and news admins
even carry that nazi ngp hole?

Do you realize what is going on this very moment?

as
it's purpose except for informal discussion and that is only if the
proponent chooses to discuss it in here.

That is the very purpose of news.groups on the first place.
ALL your discussions are just that, discussions.
They have no effective power and ANY news admin in the world
isn't even obliged to follow ANY of your so called votes,
which is nothing more than a fraud as stated by one of the
founders of the entire usenet information system,
Brad Templeton, who knows about it more than you can even
begin to imagine.

The final decision is of a news admin,
who decides to carry your group for whatever reason.

ANYONE can issue the same control messages
as these nazi puppets, without going thru months
oh humiliation, insult, reducule and outright harassment.

This is all but a puppet show.

Just like one of the most experienced news admins,
working for one of the biggest provider on the planet
stated here, he does not want to see all these
"official RFDs" of ten pages long, filled with all
kinds of garbage.

If you want to create a group, just write a
ONE PARAGRAPH justification and put it in the body
of a newgroup control message and push you send
button. That is ALL there is to it.

Why do news admins have to read truckloads of this
totalitarian garbage they call "RFDs", which is
nothing but delusion on the first place,
because when someone creates a new group,
there is no guarantee whatsoever that it will become
something alive and vital.

At the time of creation, just about ALL they have
is the vague idea. No one cares about those "official"
dictates and people post just about anything imaginable
in just about any group they want, and that is beauty
of usenet. If you don't want to read someone's posts,
just put them in your filter, filter their entire domain
if you want to, and you'll never see their articles
again. But all other may, and some may find those
articles interesting, stimulating or whatever.

Usenet is not a neo-nazi system.
Never meant to be.
The system was originally designed to exchange the
research and other information between the Universities,
and, almost immediately, it proved to be a gold mine,
helping people tremendously in all sorts of endaviors.

Then, these nazis took over it and Russ Allbery
worked his rears off to make sure it becomes a
totalitarian system, controlled by him.
He is a mainainer of one of the most widely used
news servers, INN, and so he made the default
configuration into INN in such a way, that the only
"authorized" address for ANY control message for big-8,
belongs to where he sits. Not only that, but the
control message has to be PGP signed, thus making it
virtually unforgeable, and uless this is the case,
your control messages aren't even seen by the news
admins as they are prefiltered and do not even
appear on your screen.

And this is nothing less than a nazi takeover of
the biggest set of hierarchies, carried by literally
every single news servers in the world.

And, for many years, most news admins automattically
supported that scheme, not even bothering to consider
the consequences of it and what kind of a nazi setup
they ACTIVELY support, cherish and promote.

But now, the story is different, but not in the way
these lil nazi puppets think.

You'll see.

seems to me like one further
nail in the coffin for news.groups and it's general usefulness?

There is no coffin for news.groups.
This is all but a pipe dream.

The news.groups will remain whatever it was conceived
to be for as long as usenet is around,
and all these puppets come and go,
and most of them will eventually be thrown out
into garbage bins as used condoms.

Nothing less.
Nothing more...

First of all, they'll cut each other's throats
in their never ending unquenchable thirst for power.
There will be only one of them left at the and,
and, untill that nazi worm, Russ Allbery, finally
goes to hell, where he belongs,
all these assorted puppets can only make the
huffing and puffing sounds,
"full with fury,
signifying nothing".

Ever heard?

Of course, it could remain as a general chat group and if so, then fair
enough, but as to having any real importance or standing.. then it would
seem not.

Just because you are filled with slave mentality
and your mind is brainwashed to literal oblivion,
being played by the most blatant and most violent
totalitarian perverts, it does not mean tha the
whole mankind is dead, at least as far as
intelligence goes.

Just because you accept theze nazis,
and they have gone completely insane,
having enough arrogance to come to news.groups
and proclaim that "new realities" are now in full force
and news.groups is no longer anything of significance.

Wut?

Who ARE those lil cockroaches?
What AUTHORITY do they have to make such proclamations?
WHY do they even bother to come to news.groups
and make such blatant nazi proclamations?
What seems to be the problem?
Why this pathological nazi sicko and satanist
Tim Skirvin, who is literally obscessed with
this "moderation" thing and who accumulated
over 10 groups in his "virtual real estate" bag,
with all his powers of sucking,
still has to go out to alt.config
to bring in "new converts", trying to convince
them that they'd better come to ngp
instead of simply issuing the control message
in alt.* hierarchy.

One of the news admins responded to one of the
people who came to alt.config, bragging on his knees
and asking is it at all possible to create a news group,

SEND A CONTROL MESSAGE AND GO AWAY!

See?

THAT is what usenet was designed to be on the first place.

Just put your reasoning in the control message body,
fill the Control header and push the send button,
using just about any news reader there is.

Simple as that.

All this "official" bullshit, is just that,
the bullshit, and of the highest grade,
a puppet theatre, ran but the sick, power hungry
megalomaniacs, having no effective power whatsoever.

All this is, is a story of the wheel of karma
as told by the Idiot.

Nothing less.
Nothing more...

As the REAL "power" to create/delete or change status
of ANY group, lies in the hands of a plain ordinary
news admin, working his rears for peanuts,
and not some Aryan, blue blooded fascist,
no matter what kind of sucking sounds he makes.

You can lick their asses all you want
and you can believe that a pipe dream
is actually a reality,
and all these puppets is something real,
and you can believe just about anything
they brainwash you with.

But...

There is such a thing as Truth,
THAT WHICH IS.

And there is just nothing anybody can do or conceive
that can change THAT WHICH IS,
as forever manifest in this eternal expansion
of Infinite Intelligence.

Not possible even in principle.
All the powers of evil, combined,
and all the powers of destruction conceivable,
can not possibly violate the principle
of Infinite Intelligence.

Enough.

[nukleus]

As it is, with the move to only have formal discussions in n.g.p, this
group has lost a lot of it's status and importance as far as the
creation and discussion of new groups is concerned. So, what is left as
it's purpose except for informal discussion and that is only if the
proponent chooses to discuss it in here.

Well, even if we move informal group proposal discussion to n.g.p, this
group remains the place for policy discussion, unfortunately.

UNFORTUNATELY?

And what would you, mouth foaming nazi, would do without it?
Why don't you just go and talk to all those clueless and
newbies in ngp?

What is the compelling need for you to even bother
about this "unfortunate" group?

Are you nothing but a pervert?

--

[nukleus]

As it is, with the move to only have formal discussions in n.g.p, this
group has lost a lot of it's status and importance as far as the
creation and discussion of new groups is concerned. So, what is left as
it's purpose except for informal discussion and that is only if the
proponent chooses to discuss it in here.

Well, even if we move informal group proposal discussion to n.g.p, this
group remains the place for policy discussion, unfortunately.

Anyone not see what is coming next?
Claims about the inability to discuss policy due to noise.
Jeremy disrupting discussions that are not noisy with hyperbole and ad
hominem.
RFD (which is probably already written)
Fast tracked approval with discussion ONLY in n.g.p
Moderators will be another group of board approved filters rather than
actual usenet moderators.
Board members will no longer post or read news.groups.

Just relax.
The hell will sooner gets frozen
before it happens,
and even if it does,
even in principles,
I'll personally release a piece of software
that will devastate what is left of usenet
and convert it into a madhouse, LITERALLY.

These lil funky cockroaches
will never "rule" ANYTHING.

They are just a bunch of dummies,
meant to entertain the 2-5 year old kids.

Nothing more.
Nothing less...

Have you seen what a SINGLE person has done to
this entire news hierarchy?

His nick is HipCrime.

Remember?

Now, he devastated several groups in news hierarchy
for YEARS. He dedicated a few years of his life to
writing a tool to turn this sucky thing upside down,
and they tried to get him for YEARS, with all their
"power" and all their connectivity and all their
super-sucking speed global nodes on the Internet.

And what is the result?

Well, he was just pissing in their faces
for YEARS on.

Then he simply got bored with all those suckers
that think they are omni-potent.

Now, what Hippy had, with all due respect,
and I do have some respect for that dude,
cause his mind is brilliant and his ideas
are some of the most insightful you can find,
is all but a chicken shit,
compared to what is available now.

You understand?
The most potent and lethal thing in the entire
history of usenet, NewsAgent, is nothing but
a pile of chicken shit, with all due respect
to all the work he has done and all the ideas
he has put into it, some of which are the most
brilliant things you can find for ANY money.

Zee ya...

So here is an idea, Jeremy, create your group, install your shills,
fuck off with your hypocrisy.

[nukleus]

Your call. But by staying here, you need to accept that things have
changed. News.groups is not the place where much discussion takes place
any more. Times have changed and we've moved on.

Then move on out and stay out. I will *never* accept your kind of
changes.

So you don't want to play in the new park to which you've been invited, but
they can't play in the old one, even when you call them names?
Most analogies are lacking, but this sounds more and more like a business
changing company cars from Chevy to Toyota. Those who can't get a Chevy any
more would rather walk than take a Toyota.
I know there are issues of "honor", "principles", "tradition", et al.,
involved, and I get hints of deeply insulted feelings. Will the vitriol
continue until everyone involved is gone, like the Hatfields and McCoys?
There's no real movement towards making news.groups the "official" site as it
used to be, or of staging a coup or starting a different Usenet. There's a
lot of talk and complaining, but no one has taken on the job of Doing
Something About Fixing Usenet Back the Way It Was.

Because, first of all, it is not possible, even in principle,
and, secondly, people are not even LOOKING at those things
that can revitalize usnet, which is best information system
of ANY kind and BY far.

Because the information is globally distributed
and NNTP protocol is designed in such a way,
that usenet can be a dynamic and vital global information
syste, which it ALREADY is, without doing NOTHING
worth even mentioning.

About the MAJOR problem with usenet is these lil puppet
nazis, making it as difficult if not impossible for
usenet to expand and grow dynamically,
according to just about ANY wishes of its users,
which is ALL provided in the very NNTP protocols,
and is FULLY automatic.

What needs to be done is an interface to usenet to
the web browser type UI, where people can enjoy reading
it with style sheets, images, sounds and all the other
modern technology gadgets, just like it is done all
over the world on the web.

And there is NOTHING whatsoever that prevents it
from becoming such a system. Some steps are ALREADY
made that can make your newsreader, as fancy as it is,
look like a bulock card, a stone age technology.

You can have access to vast archives and select
just about ANY kind of information using sophisticated
filter technology and get educational material,
research data, or just about anything you could have
imagined in your wildest dreams. You don't have to
waste hours on Google doing searches that produce
pile and pile of utterly irrelevant garbage while
you are trying to find pertinent information.

It can all be done in much better way,
and your user interface to usenet can be just
anything you could have imagined in your wildest
dreams, just by you chosing a style sheet, headers
you are interested in and dialing up some simple
things to suit YOUR needs, and not simply be
forced to use some delusional lunatic's view on
news reader.

Usenet is no longer that stone age gorilla.
It is a vital, dynamic information system,
the most reliable, globally distributed
and undestructible.

Usenet will function for as long as Internet exists.
So called big-8 will be gone
and very soon,
and people will laugh at the whole idea
of "managed hierarchies".

If you are here for some practical purpose
and not just to make the sucking sounds
and virtual wars, then there exists no better
information system than usenet.

Web can not even come close to it,
as a web site is a single location,
even if it has some mirrors, and it has limited
amount of information. At the very best,
it can accumulate the information from usenet
ang globally distributed, real time systems like that,
and present it on a single site, which is what Google
attempts to do in its ugly attempts.

Usenet is carried by hundreds of thousands of servers
worldwide and you don't have to worry about some
corporate marketeers, stuffing your face with
all sorts of promotion garbage
every time you push a button on your web browser.

That stuff is all but history.

From now on, YOU are the master of your own,
custom tailored information system,
having access to just about anything imaginable
and you don't have to spend years, trying to
dig up some information of your interest for
educational, research, business and other purposes.

Just get one program, push a couple of buttons,
enter the name of one of the biggest free news
servers, hit start, and go back to your kitchen
and have some drink. When you come back,
you can look at the results using your favorite
web browser and it will be looking as good
as you can imagine with your own buttons,
headers or whatever you have in your mind.

THAT is what Usenet is from now on.

And these lick funky cockroaches
and assorted nazis,
won't even be remembered
and in not so distant futures.

News.groups will remain, and so is alt.config.
That ngp thing isn't even carried by some of
the biggest servers in the world and there is
a fair chance that even those servers that carry it,
might reconsider as they realize what kind of crap
they are supporting.

You'll see...

Until that happens,
everything is just repetitive talk.

Because YOU are utterly uncreative
and can not imagine what can possibly be done.
Noone is responsible for that.

Almost any post made in the last few
months could be posted verbatim, and it would be hard to tell it was months
old. Since the change is hateful, do something about it

Fine. For example.
What do YOU personally think that needs to be done?

instead of just
repeating angry insults. If the effort succeeds, great.

There is no ifs and buts.
Some things are simply inevitable.
Once some discovery is made,
it becomes the manifest reality
and can not be destroyed
even in principle.

If if YOU have something to contribute
of ANY value whatsoever,
do so,
because that is what usenet for on the first place.

And you can post your results right here,
on news.groups, dedicated SPECIFICALLY to
ANY and ALL issues of general nature related to usenet,
so the others could see it,
incorporate into THEIR world view
and add something of their own to it.

Do you realize how Linux has become what it is?
Well, EXACTLY by doing this.
There are thousands of various programs and packages
written by dedicated individuals, contributing to
the whole Linux world, which is a model of the world,
where information is OPEN. The times of Bill Gates
and those corporate mega-sucking enterprises with
all their bloated software unlimited,
are nothing but history.

That trip is finished.

Simple as that.

If it fails,

It can not possibly fail, even in principle.
The Infinite Intelligence can only unfold
and there are no limits to it whatsoever
under ANY circumstances conceivable,
inconceivable or otherwise.

EVERY SINGLE CONTRIBUTION,
be it the most minute thing,
is INSTANTLY incorporated into it,
and every single individual
is FOREVER VALID,
no matter what kind of totalitarian garbage
they are constantly brainwash you with.

And EVERY SINGLE ACT
INSTANTLY becomes a part of it.
FOREVER.

It has been this was since the dawn of civilizations,
it IS this way this very moment,
and it will remain this way for as far as you can see
into the future.

No dictator of ANY kind or grade,
regardless of how perverted and violent he is,
will not be able to make even a DENT
in the multi-dimensional structure of
Infinite Intelligence,
which is alive and dynamic system
of ALL THERE IS.

ALL.

You understand?

Planet Earth,
Planet Earth,

Anybody home?

Oh...

Static again.

Not a problem at all.

Zee ya.

maybe

There are no maybies.
Just be creative and do what you can
to make your world more beautiful,
more authentic,
more alive,
more dynamic,
and you name it.

This is ALL there is to it.

Your efforts are NEVER futile.
Never have been,
never are,
and could never be,
even in principle.

it will at least lower some blood pressures.

Blood pressure can remain high, need be.
It simply reflects the intensity of your
experience at the moment.

Nothing more.
Nothing less...

[nukleus]

Your call. But by staying here, you need to accept that things have
changed. News.groups is not the place where much discussion takes place
any more. Times have changed and we've moved on.

Then move on out and stay out.

I have moved on.

But you're still here.

I know this is going to be a real dumb point to make, because I will
just get 'trolled' for making it... but...
If the B8MB members 'move out' as you put it and no longer frequent this
group then what's the point of this group's existence?

If they've moved out, why do you care?

As it is, with the move to only have formal discussions in n.g.p, this
group has lost a lot of it's status and importance as far as the
creation and discussion of new groups is concerned.

Then why are you here? To tell people to go to the moderated group
where their posts will be rejected if they don't agree with the b8mb?

So, what is left as
it's purpose except for informal discussion and that is only if the
proponent chooses to discuss it in here.

What's left is a place to begin discussions of what will replace the
b8mb since it is a failure.

Yep, Garry.
EXACTLY.

This place isn't going anywhere any time soon.
And that other hole, called ngp,
well...

Let it be,
let it be.

Ever heard?

So suggesting the Board members 'stay out' seems to me like one further
nail in the coffin for news.groups and it's general usefulness?

If they don't want to discuss here, they can discuss there? That make
it clear?

Of course, it could remain as a general chat group and if so, then fair
enough, but as to having any real importance or standing.. then it would
seem not.

Yet you're still here.

Yep, Garry. I know that you know all there is to know
about perversions, so these poor "clueless" do not
even realize how foolish do they look
and how lil THEY have to contribute to just about anything
of ANY significance,
and for a simple reason:

They do not believe in their own validity.

That is all.

Nothing more.
Nothing less...

[nukleus]

What's left is a place to begin discussions of what will replace the
b8mb since it is a failure.

Only if you define "failure" as "something Gary doesn't like". By any
metric that makes sense, it's actually doing quite well.

You are just a plain, ordinary
blood boiling idiot,
who placed restrictions on himself
and projects his own limitations
into outside world.

Right now, you are totally clogged up
and can not possibly contribute to anything
beyond destruction and neo-nazi propaganda.

You have wasted literally years on usenet
and do not seem to have learned ANYTHING
out of it.

So you keep repeating the same old and primitive
nearly random permutation of ASCII characters
and that is about the extent of reality of it all.

You are simply stuck in the rut
up to your ears,
and do not even allow the idea of your stuckness
enter your conscious levels.

And so, througout these years,
you keep licking asses of just about the most
rotten and perverted sadists and assorted
totalitarian dictators
that come and go.

But are you HAPPY with this state of affairs?
Have you SEEN anything new under the Sun?
Do you feel you have contributed to ANYTHING,
that is even REMOTELY creative?

Have you seen your own archives?

[nukleus]

Your call. But by staying here, you need to accept that things have
changed. News.groups is not the place where much discussion takes place
any more. Times have changed and we've moved on.

Then move on out and stay out. I will *never* accept your kind of
changes.

So you don't want to play in the new park to which you've been invited,

It's more like we've been invited to come to a new park that we're not
allowed to play in and watch others play. Meanwhile those who are
allowed to play in the new park want those who are not allowed to play
to refrain from playing in the old park because a new park exists that
they're not allowed to play in,

Garry, you are well grown up,
experienced enough in ALL sorts of things.

What is so difficult to grasp here?

First of all, there just exist NO ONE
to "not allow" you just about anything you can imagine here
and that IS the very purpose of Usenet as such.

It all depends on YOU.
How many gazillions of all these wannabies have
you seen in your usenet history?
How many dictators have come and go?
How many "rules and regulations" have you seen?
How many dictates have you heard of?

Do YOU, personally, need to be reminded?

And you, personally, have contributed in some
of the better aspects of usenet
by battling tooth and nail
against thousands upon thousands
of those blood boiling nazis,
whining and whining,
trying to shut down people's accounts
just to prevent them from saying what they have to say.

A few years back, when REAL battles were raging
on usenet, and those slimy lil nazi puppets
were literally crawling out of black holes at you,
you still stood up
and had enough courage
to stand alone
against this giant oppression machine,
and you survived,
and YOU are still here,
and all those assorted wannabies
are long gone.

Gone because they finally realized
that they have really and literally nothing
to say beyond their stupid lil conspiracies
of destruction, just like in ANY totalitarian system
throughout times.

What is this "if they allow"?

And YOU are saying it?

I don't believe my eyes.

Lemme wipe my screen off,
cause it is wet with your tears.

Zee ya.

but
they can't play in the old one, even when you call them names?
Most analogies are lacking, but this sounds more and more like a business
changing company cars from Chevy to Toyota. Those who can't get a Chevy any
more would rather walk than take a Toyota.
I know there are issues of "honor", "principles", "tradition", et al.,
involved, and I get hints of deeply insulted feelings. Will the vitriol
continue until everyone involved is gone, like the Hatfields and McCoys?
There's no real movement towards making news.groups the "official" site as it
used to be, or of staging a coup

There is now.

[nukleus]

[...]

I also think news.groups should still be an "official" site. I didn't have
a problem filtering out the noise in news.groups before the transfer of power
last year, and I think the revamping of the creation process and the creation
of n.g.p were bad reactions to a one-time problem.

News.groups is *still* the official place for discussions regarding
official Big 8 policy. I am not sure what other purposes n.g. fulfils
apart from that and a place for general discussion about Big 8 groups.
Maybe someone with more knowledge can add to this.

News.groups does much less than it used to. It's become a place to argue more
than anything else.
As for discussing B8 policy, I'm sorry, but policy can be discussed until the
cows come home, but I've not really seen that the discussion has much effect.
I know there will be follow-ups that tell me I'm wrong, and show examples of
changes. Yes, there have been some changes, but the procedure for newsgroup
creation has changed greatly, and the changes I've seen are small compared to
that. It's just that it's not worth it to argue that point any more.

If n.g.p must exist, however, I think RFDs and the like should be posted here
as well as n.g.p., and I've made that argument several times. The board
disagrees with me, and I think they've taken authority that wasn't intended

to

be theirs, but I'm not angry enough about that to attack here or to boycott
n.g.p. I just don't see the value in attacking board members, or those who
agree with them, every time they say anything here. It only increases the
noise and prolongs the argument. Boycotting n.g.p only results in remaining
in the dark (willfully) about what's going on with group creation.

A couple of board members suggested and recommended that my next RFD
revision should be posted to both n.g.p and n.g as well as any 'related'
groups that I named in the RFD for the group I am trying to create.

If that's really what was meant, it's a departure from "official" policy. The
last thing I was told is that it's not really useful to post RFDs or other
dicsussion about a group's creation in news.groups, since all of the official
discussion takes place in n.g.p. Having official discussion in both groups
would be unwieldy.

I think that's a good idea. My only concern was that the only thread in
which the discussion counts in terms of the 'official' recognition is
the one in n.g.p. However, I can add or modify my RFD based on any
ideas and suggestions from this group as well as cite support msgs in
the main n.g.p. thread just as I would do so from any other related
group included in my RFD, so that seems to be a reasonable solution for
me at least as there are people here who have good ideas but will not
post in n.g.p. on principle.

But n.g.p is the only official place to comment,

There can be NOTHING "official" in this nazi setup.

and comments made in
news.groups may never even be seen by the board.

So what?
YOU take them as something of reality,
while all it is, is just a pipe dream
invented by the puppets.

Therefore, news.groups is a dead end for such comments.

If there is ANYTHING "official" on usenet related to
group creation or status, it is news.groups.

That Russ is probably sweating pretty good now,
as every new day, what he has done becomes more and
more obvious and more and more news admins begin
to realize what kind of trip they are supporting
by accepting the isc.org originated control messages
as the ONLY "official" ones and by having the PGP
signature flags set for the big-8.

Big-8, the biggest set of OPEN PUBLIC hierarchies
as far as distribution is concerned,
can not be "managed", in principle.

Secondly, no matter WHO "manages" it, you will have
pretty much the same results as you have right now,
as these people will inevitably nazis, even if they
are not to begin with, feeling that "power" over all.

And that is NOT what usenet was conceived to be
from the very beginning.

So...

Again, the decision's been made,

They can make ANY decisions they like,
but they have no effective power of ANY kind.
It is all but a puppet dream.

and it doesn't do a lot of good to argue
against that decision.

Then why are you arguing?
What are you arguing for?

[nukleus]

Post by nukleus

[...]

I also think news.groups should still be an "official" site. I didn't have
a problem filtering out the noise in news.groups before the transfer of

power

last year, and I think the revamping of the creation process and the

creation

of n.g.p were bad reactions to a one-time problem.

News.groups is *still* the official place for discussions regarding
official Big 8 policy. I am not sure what other purposes n.g. fulfils
apart from that and a place for general discussion about Big 8 groups.
Maybe someone with more knowledge can add to this.

News.groups does much less than it used to. It's become a place to argue more
than anything else.

Yes, that would seem to be true.

As for discussing B8 policy, I'm sorry, but policy can be discussed until the
cows come home, but I've not really seen that the discussion has much effect.
I know there will be follow-ups that tell me I'm wrong, and show examples of
changes. Yes, there have been some changes, but the procedure for newsgroup
creation has changed greatly, and the changes I've seen are small compared to
that. It's just that it's not worth it to argue that point any more.

If n.g.p must exist, however, I think RFDs and the like should be posted

here

as well as n.g.p., and I've made that argument several times. The board
disagrees with me, and I think they've taken authority that wasn't intended

to

be theirs, but I'm not angry enough about that to attack here or to boycott
n.g.p. I just don't see the value in attacking board members, or those who
agree with them, every time they say anything here. It only increases the
noise and prolongs the argument. Boycotting n.g.p only results in remaining
in the dark (willfully) about what's going on with group creation.

A couple of board members suggested and recommended that my next RFD
revision should be posted to both n.g.p and n.g as well as any 'related'
groups that I named in the RFD for the group I am trying to create.

If that's really what was meant, it's a departure from "official" policy. The
last thing I was told is that it's not really useful to post RFDs or other
dicsussion about a group's creation in news.groups, since all of the official
discussion takes place in n.g.p. Having official discussion in both groups
would be unwieldy.

Yes and as I said, or tried to say, any *official* discussion

Again and again and again.

There can be no "official" discussions on usenet,
even in principle.

Post by nukleus
must

Zig hail!

MUST!
ON YOUR KNEES, MORTALS!

Post by nukleus
take
place in n.g.p.

It is just your opinion and you can follow your own advice.
Not a problem at all.

Enough.

Post by nukleus
but it's okay to hold unofficial discussions here, or
anywhere else for that matter, as or if the proponent wishes to. The
only caveat is that the Board will only take notice of the discussion
taking place in n.g.p. as far as their voting goes to decide if the
group should or should not be created. The proponent can however, if
they so wish, put forward views and opinions from other groups, in the
main thread in n.g.p. in the form of quotes and/or cites to support
their RFD or to suggest changes to it.

I think that's a good idea. My only concern was that the only thread in
which the discussion counts in terms of the 'official' recognition is
the one in n.g.p. However, I can add or modify my RFD based on any
ideas and suggestions from this group as well as cite support msgs in
the main n.g.p. thread just as I would do so from any other related
group included in my RFD, so that seems to be a reasonable solution for
me at least as there are people here who have good ideas but will not
post in n.g.p. on principle.

But n.g.p is the only official place to comment, and comments made in
news.groups may never even be seen by the board. Therefore, news.groups is a
dead end for such comments.

See my note about citing comments and suggestions from other groups.

Again, the decision's been made, and it doesn't do a lot of good to argue
against that decision.

Well, I'm not so sure about that. Some members of the Board have, after
a few short discussions, made some clarifications about how such
discussions on an RFD, in other groups such as n.g., can be made and
while their policies have remained, by and large, unaltered , they have
suggested various means by which those discussions elsewhere, and the
ideas and comments they contain, may be worthwhile representing in the
main official discussion thread as and when the proponent wishes.
Of course, anyone else can do the same thing but as some of those people
here, who may have good ideas and suggestions, will not post to n.g.p
then it would up to the proponent to (fairly) represent those views and
comments, in the main thread in n.g.p. which might not always happen.

[nukleus]

I suggest you all go to n.g.p. and never return to news.groups.

Wayne - why don't +you+ go somewhere, like alt.config? The way things
are done around here are never going to satisfy you - alt.config might
be a more useful place for you to hang out and insult people.

Because news.groups is and always will be the only legitimate place
for discussing new group creation for the "real" USENET -- the lineal
descendants of net.*, which are the Big 7.

Not any more. Things have changed.

Would you expect to be able to get the Jews to abandon Jerusalem, or the
Muslims to abandon Mecca?

Last I looked, news.groups is not a religion and is a relatively recent
place vs Mecca or Jerusalem.

You'll have just as much luck getting me to
go to alt.config.

Your call. But by staying here, you need to accept that things have
changed. News.groups is not the place where much discussion takes place
any more.

There is discussion but it doesn't have any relevance since the Big* board
ran away to their private club.

It has just about all the relevance it can possibly have.
And it is good those puppets "ran away".
Actually, do you think they are THAT stupid?
I bet they are reading all this stuff
just to see what is REALLY going on in the world
and what kinds of things might come out of it.

Meanwhile, life goes on.

Times have changed and we've moved on.

Zig hail!

Indeed. To a place where you don't allow public discussion.
CWQ

Thomas

[nukleus]

Any informal discussions about an RFD, be them here or in any other
group, are useful *if* the proponent takes part in the discussion
because he can then cite those ideas and comments in the main thread in
n.g.p. for the Board to consider. There is no obligation for the
proponent to do this of course, but as a couple of the Board members
suggested that would be a 'good idea' and as it makes sense to me, then
I am willing to do that for my RFD.

You may be but some may not be. Not everyone wishes to post to a
moderated newsgroup in order to get their newsgroup created.

I completely agree with that, which is why I listened to the suggestions
made by both some Board members and non Board members and decided to
discuss my RFD in n.g. But, if I want to get this group created and
created via the 'official' route, which at this time seems to be the
only 'real' and practical way of doing so, especially as I am hoping to
attract the News Admins that used to frequent n-s-c so regularly, to
take part in the discussions in the group I am proposing, then I *have*
to post to n.g.p. That's not a choice. It's a simple fact in order for
me to achieve what I am hoping to achieve.
I said in another thread that I have only one agenda and I meant that.
My *only* agenda, if you want to call it that, is to get the new group I
am proposing, off the ground because I truly did enjoy participating in
n-s-c when it was a really useful and interesting group.

Just go it in alt.* This whole big-8 thing is not functional
at the moment. It is still mearly a byproduct of the existing
totalitarian system, going back nearly a generation of time.

Write a good paragraph explaining why do you think
your group makes sense. Just don't create pile upon piles
of information, cause no one has time to read it,
just like one of the of the admins of one of the biggest
servers out there proposed.

Make sure you can fit it all in no more than one
page of written text, cause just about ALL they want
to see is your first paragraph.

Then
"just send a control message and go away",
like one of the news admins stated.

That is just about ALL there is to it.

Why do you need to even bother about this ugly
big-8 thing? You think you're gonna get more
propagation?

And for that thing alone you are willing to accept
just about ANY totalitarian system imaginable?

Well...

That is YOUR choice.

Enough.

FWIW, I have struggled hard with the whole idea of the new group I'm
suggesting, being moderated too. I have looked for any alternatives to
human moderation that would prevent, if not all, then most of the noise
that affected n-s-c so badly and in the end caused that group to become
the 'wasteland' it now is. I am hopeful that some form of
robo-moderation might be one of the possible solutions but to be frank,
I'm not sure if using that method of moderation will prevent the mess
occurring again in the new group, that occurred and wrecked n-s-c., in
which case the only other solution may be human moderation as much as I
would hope that not to be the case. I have to be realistic though too..

It doesn't matter if members of the Board are *here* or not ( and they
obviously are here and do read the threads because of the responses they
make)

Some may be, but not all. They have stated they wouldn't be here. How are
they to listen to/read/hear dissenting opinions if they aren't *here*?

In the case of RFD discussion, by the comments being cited and/or quoted
in the 'official' thread in n.g.p. by the proponent. In my case, I will
do that as I have said I would. I cannot speak for other proponents but
I would hope they would follow suit too, if they choose to post a copy
of their RFD here, as I still believe that this group has a lot to
offer in terms of ideas and suggestions, as well as critiques, for those
wishing to create a new group.
As for any other discussions, well, they would be off topic in n.g.p. so
the only place for such discussions would be here and if members of the
Board choose not to read this group then a lot of useful ideas and
suggestions could well be missed by them.
Having said that, I do understand why some members of the Board are
tired of reading this group, as are some regulars of this group are
tired too it seems, of the same arguments and discussions going on
without any form of possible resolution that is agreeable to both sides.

but even if they were not *here* the suggestions and ideas can be

cited in the main discussion thread in n.g.p. for them to consider and
read.

I see. So someone else must report to them what has been said? They
cannot find out for themselves? Intersting.

Actually, I believe that several of the Board members (if not the vast
majority of them) will continue to read this group and read threads
which are related to the discussion of RFDs as well as other threads of
interest to them. I don't know if they will respond in this group, to
comments made in those threads however.

Not only that of course, but
the same ideas and suggestions are

read by the proponent who may or may not agree with them as is his
prerogative.

Of course. However, not ALL discussions or disagreements WILL be
forwarded. You can take that to the bank.

In terms of RFD's they should be if the Proponent posts his/her RFD in
this group because to not do so would be a waste of the Proponents own
time discussing it here, if he is not going to use those suggestions and
comments in the official thread in n.g.p.
However, if you are talking about general discussion about the Big 8
groups and Big 8 policy for example, then they should not be posted to
n.g.p. because such posts will just get rejected by the mods for being
off topic (I know, I've had two posts rejected in the last month for
precisely that reason!)
Currently, n.g. is the place for discussion on the following topics in
relation to the Big 8 groups according to the Big 8 website
http://www.big-8.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=ngp:ng
Developing ideas that could become formal proposals for new groups or
improved policies.
Discussing issues related to established groups.
Evaluating proposals, policies, and changes regarding the Big-8
newsgroup hierarchies.
Explaining how newsgroups work.
Examining the culture of Usenet and the Big-8.
Offering advice on netiquette or providing strategies for dealing with
problems in newsgroups.
Preserving and transmitting the history of Usenet and the Big-8.
Maintaining contact with friends and colleagues.
Providing feedback on the management of the Big-8.
Cultivating volunteers to help manage the Big-8.
Pooling resources to solve technical problems.
Public communications with members of the Big-8 Board.
Any discussion that would be on-topic in the news.groups.* hierarchy is
encouraged.
I think that list does show that n.g. does have an intended purpose and
can still have a useful purpose in terms of the Big8 hierarchy and what
goes on there.
However, quite how some of those can be achieved if the B8MB Board
members do not read this group, is a little hard to understand but
that's a subject I am not qualified to comment on.

[nukleus]

I was referring to the fact that the only threads that the B8MB
take note of, are those in n.g.p. However, as I have also said, it
was suggested to me, by some members of the Board, to post my RFD
in here and I have begun that process tonight with the prelim for

I'm beginning to regret that suggestion and to think it was
possibly a mistake. Since offering the view, the atmosphere in here
has gone even more poisonous.

Do you think it has anything to do with the continuing
marginalization of news.groups?

Yes, I think this could be a factor.

Sometimes verbalizing problem gives the solution. Then stop
marginalizing news.groups.

So long as news.groups is such a hostile place

Do you have that sticker on your forehead?

and so long as n.g.p is
serving it's purpose,

[of masturbation club, ran by the puppets]

there's no reason to change things further.

Further?

Where?

That not placing even one followup to an RFD here *might* have
something to do with lack of discussion?

You are free to look, if you wish, at the discussion....

That's the disingenous trick of twisting the conversation to mean
something else.

Not at all.

Will someone help this puppet
to remove that plug out of his ass?

If you want, you can participate in the formal process

What "formal" process?
What are you smoking fer breakfast?
Must be some bad shit.

You know, one medical researcher showed me some x-ray
pictures of those, who smoke that bad shit,
where you could see an inch size holes in their brain,
and not only one, but all over the brain.

You must be missing some major sections in your
cockpit, and instead of a functioning brain,
what you got is that
"dimly lit kerosine lampe between your ears".

Enough.

of
news group creation. Or not. It's totally your call.

There's no discussion of RFDs here because they aren't posted here. As
you just admitted to a paragraph or two above.

That doesn't stop you from discussing it here. What actual value that is
to the proponent is a separate question.

Gosh, this is awfully like Tim's war on alt.config, and then blandly
saying that there weren't many proposals.

I do not spend time in alt.config so can't really comment one way or
the other.

Then don't make comments about alt.config. See? Verbalizing it makes
it real easy.

I wasn't commenting about alt.config as such. Alt is a hierarchy with
the lack of rules some seem to want big-8 to have.
Thomas

[nukleus]

As it is, with the move to only have formal discussions in n.g.p,
group has lost a lot of it's status and importance as far as the
creation and discussion of new groups is concerned.

Really? Whom have you consulted about the status and importance of
news.groups, other than members of a certain pathetic little gang of
liars and cheats?

Notice that RFDs no longer have a followup to news.groups at all?

Correct.
Discussion of active proposals now takes place in n.g.p.

So it's moved from "official" to all?

Indeed, it's just official communication.

What "official", you lil funkay puppet?
You think there is enough idiots
to take your masturbation club
as something "official"?

My apologies for not making
this clear.

Shove that "apology" up your own output hole.

And you complain about no constructive discussion here. Got it.

Indeed.

Thend what are you doing here,
you funkay cockroach?

[nukleus]

Sorry, but it's plain your ideas will never bear much fruit. You cannot
stop anyone reading this group be it members of the B8MB or Joe Bloggs
from down the street.

You idiot, of COURSE *I* can't stop anyone from reading this group.
I'm trying to convince you morons to stop *yourselves* voluntarily but
apparently you're too downright stupid to understand that. Now that I've
spelled it out in excruciating detail, I'm sure you *still* won't get it.

I don't think there's any misunderstanding about what you want. But will
there come a time when you accept the fact that what you want is not going to
happen in an unmoderated group? One can ask, plead, or demand that people do
X, but unless the power to enforce X exists, it's just wasted effort. You're
gonna blow a gasket, Wayne.

I've already accepted it, else I never would have spelled it out in
such detail. I've wanted the board out of here for months, but have
avoided being too explicit about it

They are ALREADY out.
Haven't you noticed?
What is left of them?
All 3 of them, jacking off in their "private" club?

Enough.

-- especially the part about not
wanting them to "overhear" conversations between their opponents and
new proponents -- until after it started looking like a lost cause.
I never would have spoken so openly about my objectives if I still
thought there was a reasonable chance of attaining them.
What is frustrating me now is the apparent impossibility of drumming
into a certain thick-skulled self-proclaimed (and self-promoting)
musical-genius-wannabe that there is a difference between "stopping"
someone and convincing that person to stop *himself*.
If you think I'm "gonna blow a gasket" over anything that happens here,
then you're missing the very big clue contained in my signature, which
could be paraphrased as, "None of this really matters."

[nukleus]

"That's what happens when you're dealing with people whose
goal is simply to attack and disrupt, and not to offer anything
constructive."

There are people here in news.groups whose goal is simply to attack
and disrupt, and not to offer anything constructive.

Well, i did offer something constructive:

Remove the very idea of big-8, which is about the most
propagated PUBLIC set of hierarchies, as being "managed",
which eventually lead to big-8 effectively owned and
controlled by the US military and intelligence agencies
via isc.or, receiving millions of bux annualy as "sponsorship".

On what basis does big-8 belong to isc?

What is isc on the first place?

How come the GLOBAL PUBLIC forums
became the "private property" of some puppets
from isc.org?

How come you make a puppet show out of the very idea
of democracy and use Stalinist and fascist principles
to run the most widely propagated PUBLIC information
systems there are on the planet Earth?

Wayne has
explicitly admitted as much, for example, and I doubt "whoever" it is
who is behind the silly supersedes attack on board members

Oh. What is that?
How do they attack you?
This sounds exciting.

(and me, as
it happens) is trying to be constructive. Expecting such people to
suddenly find the board the cat's whiskers doesn't strike me as
particularly reasonable.

Depends on what kind of crockshit
you mind is programmed with.

You mileage may vary on the notions of "reasonable".

Perhaps Jeremy was not referring to these
people only, but the fact that you chose to interpret his words the
way you did just goes to show the apparently irremediable rift between
the board and its "sycophants" and the opponents of the board. Too
bad, possibly.

First of all, the is no board.
It is nothing more than fiction,
a pipe dream by the power hungry
megalomaniacs thinking they are there
to rule the biggest global information system
on the planet Earth,
carried by hundreds of thousands of servers worldwide.

That information system has NEVER been conceived
as some Stalinist committee style domination trip.

Besides the ad hom and hyperbole, my point is that there is acceptance
of board members, by those that accept the board, posting any manner
of disruptive posts. Supporters and sycophants then replying to the
board member as if what they wrote was a rational and well thought out
post all while decrying the "noise" or "poisonous atmosphere".

Perhaps the board members' posts aren't always the most topical and
full of love towards the whole of humanity, but that does not in any
way contradict the fact that, in reality, there is much "incivility",
"noise" and "poison" in news.groups these days.

So, are you familiar with a concept of democracy?
Do you know what it states?
Simple:

DA voice of people is DA ruling factor
in a democratic system.

And if those people voice what they do,
that means YOU are screwed up.

What is so difficult to grasp?

Or are you still living in the world of your parents,
where one nazi would attempt to rule the whole world?

And what happened at the end?

Come now, you really
think calling people liars, cheats, and so on and on,

Because that is EXACTLY what you are.
There is so much evidence of it on a public record,
that the whole thing isn't even interesting.

can not well be
described as "poisonous" or "attacking"? The atmosphere is here,

Then why are you bothering to post here?

quite
regardless of whether the board deserves everything it gets,

What board?

I don't see any board.

First of all, usenet is not a corporation.
What is so difficult to grasp?

Is your mind so cleaned after endless brainwashing
that there are no active neurons left?

and denying it is pure silliness.

Denying what?

Your puppet theatre?

Are a delusional lunatic?

The *appearance* is that discussion about b8 policy could not be
allowed so Jeremy went out of his way to insure it was disrupted
using his standard method of hyperbole and ad hom. Hypocrisy
of the first order. Yet it was a post you felt was worthy replying
as if the hypocirsy was not eveident.

I reply to all sorts of stuff, worthy or otherwise.

It is a two way street. Yet the blame is ALWAYS laid at the feet of
those who oppose the board and/or its existance.

There you go with the hyperbole yourself!

Not very entertaining material.
But what to do
in a puppet theatre?

[nukleus]

"That's what happens when you're dealing with people whose
goal is simply to attack and disrupt, and not to offer anything
constructive."

There are people here in news.groups whose goal is simply to attack
and disrupt, and not to offer anything constructive. Wayne has
explicitly admitted as much, for example, and I doubt "whoever" it is
who is behind the silly supersedes attack on board members (and me, as
it happens) is trying to be constructive. Expecting such people to
suddenly find the board the cat's whiskers doesn't strike me as
particularly reasonable. Perhaps Jeremy was not referring to these
people only, but the fact that you chose to interpret his words the
way you did just goes to show the apparently irremediable rift between
the board and its "sycophants" and the opponents of the board. Too
bad, possibly.

It was hyperbole because Jeremy was including ALL not some. Trying to
excuse his use of disruptive tactics is rather disingenuous. My
original point still is, you went along as if his post was quite
reasonable and accurate.

Besides the ad hom and hyperbole, my point is that there is acceptance
of board members, by those that accept the board, posting any manner
of disruptive posts. Supporters and sycophants then replying to the
board member as if what they wrote was a rational and well thought out
post all while decrying the "noise" or "poisonous atmosphere".

Perhaps the board members' posts aren't always the most topical and
full of love towards the whole of humanity, but that does not in any
way contradict the fact that, in reality, there is much "incivility",
"noise" and "poison" in news.groups these days.

*blink*

Come now, you really
think calling people liars, cheats, and so on and on, can not well be
described as "poisonous" or "attacking"?

When done by the very same people who declared that news.groups was
"useless".

Not only that, but having enough arrogance
to come to news.groups and announce it is invalid
and "useless".

But why do you need to even bother about it?
What is the need to come to news.groups
and tell people that the ONLY official,
if there is such a thing on the first place,
group is news.groups.

It is known by all news admins in the world
and it is known by just about any user of usenet.

So...

What is the purpose of the masturbation club,
called ngp?

I call it hypocrisy and insuring their need for n.g.p is
fulfilled. I still have not seen a proposal

What "proposal"?

Is it some kind of business deal?
Proposal to whom?

There does not exist such an entity on usenet.
Are you but a bunch of delusional lunatics?

that was not a steaming
pile of cow flop flame war the board chose to invest themselves in
that in any way needed to be posted in n.g.p

Just keep holding on to that imaginary "power" crutch.
The more you hold on to it,
the better it gets.

Xharbour
Fundamentals
Radio
Go ahead show why those could not have been done just as easily in
news.groups. Point out where the supposed incivility or noise would
have come into play.

First of all, did you even move your finger
on trying to restore comp.ai to its original state,
which is open, unmoderated forum
and the root of entire AI hierarchy?

Why did you junk a "proposal" on news.admin.moderation,
which is exactly the same proposal that was submitted
years ago and was voted on for at 3 times,
with over hundred "yes" votes,
and defeated by the previous nazi, herr fuehrer Russ Allbery?

What are you doing here?
What is your very PURPOSE?
WHO are you?
WHAT makes you think that you are some kind
of "official" here?
Were you elected via democratic process?

You look like nothing more than a clique
of power hungry megalomaniacs
and about the last thing you are interested
is the very concept of democracy,
while living in a democratic society.

Simple as that.

Enough.

The atmosphere is here, quite
regardless of whether the board deserves everything it gets, and
denying it is pure silliness.

No one is denying it. I was pointing out the double standard applied
when refererencing the noise. When board members do it, well that is
acceptable. When any of the dissenting voices do, it is disruptive.
You do get that point?

The *appearance* is that discussion about b8 policy could not be
allowed so Jeremy went out of his way to insure it was disrupted
using his standard method of hyperbole and ad hom. Hypocrisy
of the first order. Yet it was a post you felt was worthy replying
as if the hypocirsy was not eveident.

I reply to all sorts of stuff, worthy or otherwise.

It is a two way street. Yet the blame is ALWAYS laid at the feet of
those who oppose the board and/or its existance.

There you go with the hyperbole yourself!

[nukleus]

On Wed, 31 Jan 2007 22:34:38 -0600, Dave Balderstone

Bashing the Bambies was last year's fun. Now that it's established
that they're incompetent and corrupt, everybody ought to move on from
debating with them and pointing out their dishonesty, and instead
start concentrating on methods of unseating and replacing them.

So, a week ago, what are your ideas?

Start with the old system for newsgroup creation that was used until
2005 as a basis, and invite suggestions for necessary improvements.
Don't change everything just for the sake of change, as the Bambies
have done. Be reluctant to innovate; the old system was imperfect, but
it wasn't completely broken.
I think it would be useful to simplify the structure of the RFD and to
replace the complicated CFV boilerplate with something newbies will
find easier to understand.
Of course, I made similar suggestions to the Bambies over a year ago,
and, of course, they ignored me, just as they've ignored everybody
else who doesn't know their gang password.
Oh, and I'd like it to be reaffirmed that the character, motivation
and history of proponents are insignificant, but the character,
motivation and history of proposed moderators are crucially important.
If obviously unsuitable people like Dirk Bruere or Doug Freyburger are
on the list of moderators, no CFV should be issued.
But really I'd be content with any system that resulted in proposals
being improved before a control message is issued,

That an entirely different issue.
Yes, people on news.groups do have much more experience
with usenet than those "newbies" and "clueless"
that come here to discuss their idea for the group,
and can give them their ideas on how to make it work.

Make it WORK.

But this is not some kind of a dictatorship,
where some clique, appointed by herr fuehrer
Russ Allbery, is to rule the most propagated,
globally distributed information system,
which is what usenet and big-8 is.

rather than
proposals being weighed down with self-contradictory verbiage in the
Board's style.

[Terminator]

To Russ Allbery:

This is YOUR creation,
you blood boiling nazi,
who was trying to take over usenet with his nazi
model of Usenet 2 (www.usenet2.org) for MANY years.

And now, this conman Russ, hand picked this clique
of arrogant nazi puppets to do the dirty work for him.

Eat it now.

It's a theatre of war rather than a battleground.

It's a shame you see it this way. It helps no one, least of all
proponents who come to this place to attempt get a new group created.

For instance, the
Kamens Battle has been fought and won by the good guys,

There is no war, except in your imagination perhaps. Certainly some
flamage, and a lot of hot air.

So, you, lil mouth foaming nazi puppet of herr fuehrer
Russ Allbery, are doing what here on news.groups?
Spitting in the faces of people and laughing at them
with your blatant nazi tight lipped smile,
hiding your bloodied hands behind your back,
you lil chicken shit impersonator?

What AUTHORITY do you have to make such blatant nazi style
proclamations?

WHO elected you?
WHO authorized you?
What court of law, international conventions or principles
authorized this Stalinist style "committee" to take over
the biggest global information system dedicated to facilitation
of OPEN PUBLIC FORUMS and proclaim themselves to be the "rulers"
and exclusive dictators.

Or you could care less about democratic principles, eh?
Where do you live?
In a nazi Germany during the WWII?
Or stalinist Russia?

but the War
will probably have to continue for a while, until the kooky wannabe
dictators offer reasonable terms for peace.

LOL.

No perspective is involved in pointing out that somebody who
persistently lies is a liar, or that somebody who persistently cheats
is a cheat. These are questions of fact, not perspective.

I find that, generally, when folks start shouting "liar liar" it means
they've lost the argument. Godwin posts are often not far behind.

Then what are you doing here, you lil nazi puppet?
You think you can hide in your masturbation club
called ngp and brainwash those clueless with your dictates
and then, if there isn't enough clueless, come here
and make these blatant nazi proclamations?

Thomas

[Terminator]

Question: On what basis herr fuehrer Russ is about
the ONLY person who can issue the control messages
for the entire big-8, that have a chance to even
be seen by the news admins wordwide?

To Russ Allbery and his puppet theatre:

This is YOUR creation,
you blood boiling nazi,
who was trying to take over usenet with his nazi
model of Usenet 2 (www.usenet2.org) for MANY years.

And now, this conman Russ hand picked this clique
of arrogant nazi puppets to do the dirty work for him.
He announced his "retirement" in a couple of pathetic
posts, lying his rotten shark teeth off
and telling everyone how he loved them.

But he did not retire at all.
He is simply standing in the shade
and let these puppets of his
do the dirty work for him.
But it is HIM who stands behind this grandest
scam in the entire history of big-8.

The same herr fuehrer Russ is issuing the PGP signed
control messages for the entire big-8, creating all
sorts of "moderated" groups, trying to finally convert
big-8 into a totalitarian system, implementing his life
long dream of taking over Usenet.

He and David Lawrence, the previous herr fuehrer,
worked for YEARS to develop a system where the
entire big-8, the biggest global information system,
meant to facilitate OPEN PUBLIC FORUMS,
would belong to them. LITERALLY.

He built the mechanisms to make sure no one
but him can issue the control messages on big-8.
They even implemented the PGP signature requirement
and, unless the From header is group-***@isc.org,
and it is PGP signed with the key HE created,
those control messages are not even seen by the
news admins. They simply get filtered out before
they even show up on their screens.

Thus, these utterly intolerant totalitarian dicators
LITERALLY took over big-8 as far as group creation
or status is concerned.

And now, these puppets of his, are creating any
"moderated" group one can asks for, and they
flately refuse to identify such groups by
appending .moderated to a group name, thus taking
up the name space and preventing the unmoderated
version of the group, covering the same subject,
to EVER exist.

And they are creating these "moderated" groups
like crazy, with a SINGLE proponent nazi wannabe.

Meanwhile, they did not allow even a DISCUSSION
on creating a news.admin.moderation group, that
was voted for 3 times, with over a hundred supporters.
And, even with such support, the group was sabotaged
out of existence and was never created.

Thanks to herr fuehrer!
What a noble public servant he is!
What a dedication to the principles of Democracy!

These Stalinist peverts even went as far as to
create news.groups.proposals, a "moderated"
version of usenet, which is nothing but a
"private property" of theirs, where they can
implement their raging nazi ideology and brainwash
all those "newbies" and "clueless", twisting
their arms and dictating to them just about
ANYTHING they wish, because no views but their
own nazi dictates are allowed on that "private
property" of theirs. They'll simply "moderate"
it out of existence.

Following post is from one of his puppets,
a member of so called "Big 8 Management Board" scam.

Eat it now.

It's a theatre of war rather than a battleground.

It's a shame you see it this way. It helps no one, least of all
proponents who come to this place to attempt get a new group created.

For instance, the
Kamens Battle has been fought and won by the good guys,

There is no war, except in your imagination perhaps. Certainly some
flamage, and a lot of hot air.

So, you, lil mouth foaming nazi puppet of herr fuehrer
Russ Allbery, are doing what here on news.groups?
Spitting in the faces of people and laughing at them
with your blatant nazi tight lipped smile,
hiding your bloodied hands behind your back,
you lil chicken shit impersonator?

What AUTHORITY do you have to make such blatant nazi style
proclamations?

WHO elected you?
WHO authorized you?
What court of law, international conventions or principles
authorized this Stalinist style "committee" to take over
the biggest global information system dedicated to facilitation
of OPEN PUBLIC FORUMS and proclaim themselves to be the "rulers"
and exclusive dictators.

Or you could care less about democratic principles, eh?
Where do you live?
In a nazi Germany during the WWII?
Or stalinist Russia?

but the War
will probably have to continue for a while, until the kooky wannabe
dictators offer reasonable terms for peace.

LOL.

No perspective is involved in pointing out that somebody who
persistently lies is a liar, or that somebody who persistently cheats
is a cheat. These are questions of fact, not perspective.

I find that, generally, when folks start shouting "liar liar" it means
they've lost the argument. Godwin posts are often not far behind.

Then what are you doing here, you lil nazi puppet?
You think you can hide in your masturbation club
called ngp and brainwash those clueless with your dictates
and then, if there isn't enough clueless, come here
and make these blatant nazi proclamations?

Thomas
--
A member of, but not speaking for, The Big-8 Management Board

[Heavy Gay Wife]

The way I see it, Russ is the legitimate ruler of the Big 8. He
appears to have accepted the board as his agents, but it'd take him no
time at all to change that, would it?

In the abstract, the answer is yes. He's got the
power to change things whenever he wants.

So you YOURSELF admit that you are nothing but a bunch
of puppets to do the dirty work for that "real" herr fuehrer?

I don't know Russ personally. My impression is that
he's not likely to wade back into the thick of things
and dismiss the board.

Ha,
ha,
ha,
ha,
ha...

You, lil nazi wannabe, can not even GRASP the idea
that you are nothing but a used condom
and WILL be thrown out into the garbage can eventually.

So, you sit here and HOPE that he will or will not
just scrape you all, lil suckers, from the table
and dust you off into a dust bin?

(Is there any chance that Russ has the kind of sense of humour that he
set the board and the plebes up this way and he's giggling somewhere
behind a screen at all the antics?)

That fuehrer is smart.
One of the most subtlest and poisonous snakes
in the entire history of usenet.
And he has done SO MUCH DESTRUCTION to big-8,
it is simply mind boggling.

Why do you think all these nazi puppets feel like they have
ANY "power", ANY reality to it?

Well, because that nazi Russ,
has put the double armored protection into big-8 hierarchy
related configuration files of INN news server, used by majority
of news admins worldwide.

It is not these lil suckers that have done ANYTHING whatsoever.

But RUSS did it all,
and, the LAST thing in the world,
he is going to give away that PGP signed key
to sign the control messages that the news admins even have
a chance to see on their screen, and this is HIM, and that
previous sickest nazi you can find, David Lawrence, who
designed this whole scheme of dominating big-8.

Those nazi sickos even used to publish the "officially autorize"
checkgroup messages to be AUTOMATICALLY processed by
the server software to delete/add any news groups on the news
admin's server that are EXACTLY the same as these nazis issue.

And those news admins, plenty of whom have the same nazi
tendencies, as they have the "power" to destroy ANY user
account and their boss wouldn't even know it.

So, eventually, they get this nazi disease also.
I know of very few news admins who are not sick with this
megalomaniacal nazi desease.

"Power corrupts,
and ABSOLUTE power
corrupts ABSOLUTELY".

Ever heard?

And these nazi have a virtual equivalent of absolute power.
So...

They get sick.
INEVITABLY so.

That is why you can hardly find a single news admin,
who is not obscessed with this imaginary "power"
of destruction.

You see, if you can not create anything,
then you'll inevitably be obscessed with destroying something.
That is why i call it a perversion.

They extract a perverted joy out of destruction
and substitute it for REAL joy of creation.

Judging from Russ's personal goodbye to news.groups, I don't

Oh, he eventually realized
that just about the dummiest usenet poster
realizes who he is
and what his true "contribution" to usenet is.

Do you, lil suckers, know what his MAIN principle is
regarding the usenet as such?

Tell me, dummies.

What do you know of ANY value?

http://groups.google.com/group/news.announce.newgroups/msg/fc504072f9b8b989?dmo
de=source&hl=en
Marty

Farty,
you are getting boring.

--
Member

DICK, not a member.

Learn to call things as they are.

of the Big-8 Management Board (B8MB) -- http://www.big-8.org
Unless otherwise indicated, I speak for myself, not for the Board.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
"I do not agree with this notion
that somehow if I go to try to attract votes
and to lead people toward a better tomorrow
somehow I get subscribed to some --
some doctrine gets subscribed to me."

--- Adolph Bush,
Meet The Press, Feb. 13, 2000

[Mike]

Why would anyone, excepting the forger Skirvin, need to forge any
message in either news.groups or control.*?

I was assuming that vandals

Wut?

You mean anybody but your clique of nazi dictators
are ASSUMED to be "vandals"?

Do you know what vandal mean,
you dirty cunt?

prepared to send rogue control messages

The same thing. "Rogue" control messages?
And what are those?
Do you have a reference in various NNTP related RFCs,
which is about the only thing that can be even remotely called
"official"?

What are you fabricating here?

would do so by forging their from: address to increase the odds their
control message might be accepted by clueless news admins.

Clueless news admins?
Are who?

Well, they are those, who accept the default totalitarianism,
Russ Allbery has put in the default INN configuration files.
Git it?

You see, you bunch of sickos, just about every word in your
slimy posts is nothing more than perversion. It seems you
lie your rotten shark teeth off even before you open your eyes
in the morning.

It is YOU who is "rogue" here.
It is YOU, megalomaniacs, who ASSUME that THEIR clique
of Stalinist style dictators is about the only real thing under the Sun.

And anything and everything that does not align with your
dictatorial sickness is assumed to be "rogue", "forged"
or "illegal".

As far as "forging" goes, first of all, on what basis the
group-***@isc.org address is wired in by Russ Allbery
as the only "authorized" address for the entire big-8?

One more time, that address belongs to ISC, whose sorry
output hole is owned by the US military and intelligence
agencies.

So...

Who is "forging" who?

ISC is not a person, and you can only forge a specific person's
address and not some abstract entity.

Secondly, you will effectively "forge" the US military and intelligence
own signature.

One more time: There exists no person or entity or a group on usenet
that can claim "ownership" of usenet or portions of it
under ANY circumstances.

ALL you are is nothing but power hungry megalomaniacs
with delusional tendencies that ASSUME the big-8 "belongs"
to them. At that junction, you need medical attention.

And you keep telling everyone again and again and again
that you are some kind of "officials" here.

But what makes you any different than any other poster?

Ever thought of that?

Well...
What makes YOU different is that YOU and your clique
of wannabies were hand picked by herr fuehrer,
Russ Allbery, that slimy worm, calling himself an eagle.

The same nazi, who created the idea of Usenet 2,
where all the groups and sub-hierarchies were to be
controlled by the local "tzars".

So...

You think if you were hand picked by some well known nazi,
that, somehow, makes you an "official"?

Makes YOU valid?
Gives YOU rights to issue dictates
that aren't even worth the price of paper they are written on?

What lands do you live in?

Do they call their society a democratic?
Do they live by the principles of nazism and totalitarianism?

Who ARE you, delusional lunatics and mouth foaming nazis,
whose blood boils upon arrival of any view that does not
align with your nazi agenda?

It would be a shame to see such vandalism.

What vandalism, you idiots?

Do you understand what vandalism means?
Why are you trying to pervert something and put a criminal sticker
on it, you bunch of criminals?

What YOU have done here so far is nothing more and nothing
less than a criminal activity.

You are just about the sickest bunch of wannabies in the entire
usenet history. Even Russ didn't even dream of going as far as
you, nazis, went already. Even that grandfather of all ruling nazis
of big-8, David Lawrence aka tale did not go as far and so blatantly
open in his dictatorial perversions.

Even to call you perverts is an insult to a plain, ordinary pervert.
You are effectively just a bunch of sick sadists and raging nazis.

Nothing more.
Nothing less...

Then learn from your mistakes.

Indeed. Personally, I think this is great advice.
Thomas

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
"The CIA owns everyone of any significance in the major media."

--- Former CIA Director William Colby

When asked in a 1976 interview whether the CIA had ever told its
media agents what to write, William Colby replied,
"Oh, sure, all the time."

[More recently, Admiral Borda and William Colby were also
killed because they were either unwilling to go along with
the conspiracy to destroy America, weren't cooperating in some
capacity, or were attempting to expose/ thwart the takeover
agenda.]

[Sweet Tramp]

[entire sentence restored. It was omitted by John Stanley].

I was assuming that vandals prepared to send rogue control messages
would do so by forging their from: address to increase the odds their
control message might be accepted by clueless news admins.

Russ use to tell people that newgroups are just advisory and that anyone
can send them. Now people who do it are vandals and their messages
are "rogue".

I don't think that Russ Allbery meant for people to use the From
address of someone else.

And who is that Russ Allbery?

A usenet god of some kind?
Is his word a word of god of ANY kind?

Why are you, slaves, take him as some kind of a godhead figure?

Do you inevitably crave for someone controlling the oxygen
supply to your sucky input hole?

--
Jim Riley

Yep, mr. good ole Stalinist informer.
You know what people did to those of your kind
after the WWII?

Well, they simply hung them by their balls
as collaborators with nazis and, thus, the enemies
of their own people.

Get the drift?





- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
[NWO, degenerate, Skull and Bones, propaganda, brainwash,
mind control, fanatic, deranged, idiot, lunatic, retarded,
puppet, faith, ]

"Our priorities is our faith."

--- Adolph Bush,
Greensboro, N.C.,
Oct. 10, 2000

[Funny Brave Pinhead]

[entire sentence restored. It was omitted by John Stanley].

I was assuming that vandals prepared to send rogue control messages
would do so by forging their from: address to increase the odds their
control message might be accepted by clueless news admins.

Russ use to tell people that newgroups are just advisory and that anyone
can send them. Now people who do it are vandals and their messages
are "rogue".

I don't think that Russ Allbery meant for people to use the From
address of someone else.

And I *know* that forgery has not been suggested in this thread except
by the Beighters and their supporters.

Screw this entire argument altogether.

The INN is configured by nazi Russ and
vast majority of news admins do not even realize what
they support by accepting a default "managed" big-8 configuration.
They think they are getting rid of all the hassles of dealing with
real people by allowing the isc.org's PGP signed address to
be the ONLY acceptable one for control messages,
but they do NOT realize,
is they effectively become the ACTIVE supporters of this
raging nazism and totalitarian dictatorship and of the LOWEST grade
at that and accept these impostors and pretenders as something
real.

And so, the blood is on their hands also,
as they become the participants in this nazi conspiracy
of taking over the OPEN PUBLIC FORUMS, which is what
usenet was meant to be on the first place.

There is nothing to forge if you issue control messages
with From: field of group-***@isc.org
Because that is a DEFAULT INN configuration, and,
unless the control messages are PGP signed and originate
at this particular address, they are simply filtered out and
the news admin does not even see them.

So...

All you are trying to do by using this address is to be able
to get your control message even appear on news admin's
screen.

That is all.

And even if it DOES appear on his screen,
it is still HIS decision wether to add this group to his spool
or ignore it. Noone can force him to do so, even if the originating
address is that of the US military and intellegence sponsored
isc.org.

What are you trying to make out of this lil stupid thing?

Do you know why and how the news.admin.moderation group
was created on Google in about 2000?

Well, it was "forged", and so it was accepted by a number
of servers worldwide, and those, "properly" configured servers,
as that nazi Russ Allbery liked to call it, are just the opposite.

They are IMPROPERLY configured servers that allow
the nazi dictatorship ONLY to have any effect on their news system.

Thus, they themselves become nazis.

Nothing more.
Nothing less...

Simple as that.

And this word will remain valid for generations to come
and not nazi or Stalinist dictator will be able to invalidate it
no matter what they do,
and this word will remain the archives of the history of mankind
for the generations to come, who will be able to target a very
specific kinds of information in order to learn from human
experience throughout times.

That is how it is...

And what you are seeing here with all these lil nazi puppets
is nothing but a puppet show that feeds your need to participate in it.

These funky cockroaches calling themselves B8MB,
are just funky cockroaches, running in circles on your floor
and you are watching the show.

That is all.

Nothing more.
Nothing less...

I'm talking about replacing the Beighters, not pretending to *be* them.
Usenet doesn't need more of their nonsense. Usenet needs a responsible
way to quickly create useful newsgroups without having to give Skirvin
and his cronies a hand-job.

I have said this about thousand times to date:

What makes usenet so different from IRC or some other chat technology?
Yes, there is a FUNDAMENTAL difference in that usenet allows
for some coherence of thoughts and ideas.

You can write your article without being bothered by the fact
that by the time you finish one line of your thought and hit the
return key to type the next line, there may be a dozen of other
lines appearing in the channel you are sitting on.
With usenet, you are GUARANTEED that your message will
remain as you conceived it, in one piece, and so you can take your
time, pasting your comments in between the lines of some post
you are responding to.

Other than that, there is NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN USENET
and ANY OTHER ON-LINE CHAT.

Again, on IRC, you can simply type a name of the channel you like
to create, hit the return key, and it is instantly created and you
become the first participant in it.

If your channels is of any interest to others,
they'll join. Simple as that.

Now...

What is the difference between usenet and the IRC in respect
to group creation or channel creation equivalent on IRC?

Can ANYONE tell me?
As I was asking this very question for at least 7 years now.
But all these nazis are not interested in it.
Why?

Well...

It turns out that whey'll loose all their imaginary "powers"
of domination over others.

And here is my arguments on this point:

1. If newly created group never becomes active,
it does not represent ANY load on your resources,

There is no extra storage requirement.
There is no extra search time bottleneck.
There is no extra ANYTHING for any and all practical
purposes.

I know of some servers carrying 100k+ groups.
When you look at the group list, it is at least 3 times
as big as any other major server. There are some groups
that are OBVIOUSLY funky and will never be used.

But what is the PROBLEM with it?

WHO is forcing you to use them?
And if you do, WHAT is the problem with that?

You see?

2. Usenet needs to finally accept a democratic worldview
instead of being a totalitarian systems for about a generation now.
People not not want and do not need to participate in systems
ran according to dictatorial principles.

There are WAY too many other options on the Internet nowadays.

Afterall, WHO needs tens of thousands of groups?
Are you going to participate in more than a couple of groups
and associated subjects?

Well, if that is the case, why not find yourself some site that
addresses those issues and is TOTALLY open and ran
according to principles of democracy and not raging Stalinism
or fascism?

Simple as that.

So...

The people are running away from these nazis, hand picked by
the former nazis, hand picked by yet other nazis.

Do you understand what kind of trip are you feeding here?

I'm suggesting that people who care about this consider competing with
the Beighters and let the news admins vote with their servers as to
which process they wish to acknowledge.

I like the article by Brad Templeton on this subject
that states in no uncertain terms that this whole big-8 scam
is nothing but a fraud.

And these lil nazi puppets
are nothing more than a bunch of sick criminals
and assorted pervers of all kinds
and power hungry megalomaniacs
that need medical attention.

These people are simply sick with this megalomaniacal desease.

And they can not possibly contribute ANYTHING to usenet
of ANY value beyond their sick power trip.

They can not possibly find a way to rejuvinate the usenet
which is about the most stable and the most distributed information
system known to mankind.

Even web can not come near it.
On usenet, you have tens of thousands of groups
and information is duplicated and distributed on hundreds
of thousands of servers globally.

This system is a snapshot of the current state of affairs in the world.
Yes, it may have a limited scope of retention,
but that is not a problem at all.

ANYONE can create their local archives on their machines
and keep refreshing it with the information of their interest,
and not only that, but the information can be selectively filtered
using the sophisticated filters on article headers, article bodies
and group lists in order to find the EXACT information you are
interested in.

So...

Instead of wating hours on using Google search,
you can tailor your specific interests and save it in your local
config file just by hitting a function key.

Then, you can simply push a button and a well formatted
HTML text using the style sheets you like, will generate
the specific articles that satisfy your filter criteria.

You fire up your browser and read the usenet articles
that look as good as ANY other web page, all fully indexed
and next and previous article navigation knobs.

What ELSE would you want?

Now, the same thing is not quite possible with the web approach.
First of all, web, by definition is not a distributed system.
The web site exists in a single location of a web server.
They may have a couple of mirrors, but that does not change
anything in principle.

So, first of all, i could take out that site if i wanted to
and, thus, destroy the very ability to access that kind of information.
Been done so many times that it isn't even interesting to mention it,
and been done not on some lame sites, by the military, intelligence
and other facilites.

Secondly, the web sites are of limited scope. Even Google, having
the largest archives in the entire history of mankind, at least as
usenet is concerned, is a closed and limited system.
You can not extend Google as it is configured by Google and no one
else.

But you CAN extend IRC at will. Dynamically, in REAL time.

And I claim you can extend the usenet just as easily
by getting rid of this "managed" hierarchy idea of the most
propagated PUBLIC forums.

On what basis the big -8 has been made a "managed" hierarchy?
WHO is authorized to "manage" it?
According to WHAT principles?
According to WHOSE interests and desires?
According tow WHAT criteria?

Well, what you have on your hands right now
is but a byproduct of a living and raging nazi information system
and all these lil puppets, aka sick, power hungry megalomaniacs,
needing medical attention, are pretending to be the "rulers" of
this "managed" hierarchy, and that hierarchy happens to be
the most widely distributed information system in the whole world.

Do you even BEGIN to comprehend what this all means?

Well...

It means your brains are controlled by these bio-robots,
brainwashed to oblivion, with the lowest grade nazi propaganda
and the most limited template thought process,
based on 3 word phrases in average,
such as "how are ya? - nice" type of exchanges.

This is PURELY bio-robotic language of sub-idiots.

The one who asks "how are ya",
does not mean what he asks.
He doesn't give a flying dead chicken
about how you are.

So, his very question is a phoney lie on the first place.

But then...

YOU get sucked in into this trip and answer "nice".

But this is all phoney horsheshit, and of the lowerst grade,
utterly meaningless biorobotic noice, not carrying ANY
information of ANY kind for all practical purposes.

"Coca cola is good. Drink coca cola".

What does it mean?

Do ANY of you even IMAGINE of thinking what kind of bullshit
they feed you 25 hrs a day on every single information channel?
From your tv, from your radio, from that billboard that flashes
before your eyes just about ANY place you look?

What are you supporting?

Well, you are supporting a puppet model of the Universe
where YOU become the puppets,

and these very fascist dictators that pretend to be ruling something
that has NEVER been meant to be ruled on the first place,
become your masters.

And some of you, and it is on a public record,
even go as far, as to say they LIKE this nazi trip.
I mean OPENLY and blatantly state it on a public record.

They do not want a democratic principles.
The explicitly want the dictatorship model.

Huh?

Are you out of your mind,
you bunch of virtual slaves and assorted bio-robots,
brainwashed to LITERAL oblivion with just about the
lowest grade shit there is?

Do you understand what dictators do for living?
Do you even BEGIN to comprehend what does it mean
to live in a nazi or Stalinist style dictatorial system?

Well...

It means YOU can be slaughered and smashed like a cockroach,
and the other donkeys won't even notice.

Because you ALL think that it is not "my problem"
unless it hits YOU eventually.
When you start noticing people dissapearing in your
neighborhood, than you begin to realize what is going on.

But then you become fear filled upto your ears.
Your life becomes a manifestation of a living hell
and you can't even sleep well at night
cause that is EXACTLY the time when those nazis
knock on your door and tell you to get up and follow them.

There is no need for any clothes...
Cause you'll never return on the first place.

Do YOU, suckers, realize this?

And this is a reality even today
in the most developed "democratic" societies.

You understand?

You think that YOU are going to avoid being slaughered
and smashed like a cockroach?

Just becuase you are a perfect ass licker
and your tongues is so well polished from licking asses
of those nazis, that you are the first one on the list to survive?

Then YOU are the very filth of mankind.
YOU are the very waste that eventually causes global
environmental devastation of unfixable magnitude.

It is YOU, who is feeding this sick suicidal trip,
ran by the blatant, raging satanists, who cherish the idea
of destruction from the stone ages.

You like THIS kind of wordview?

So EAT it now then.

And i reserve the rigth to use ANY email address while issuing
the control messages as it is not a forgery of ANY kind.
It is simply an option in the NNTP protocol. NNTP protocol,
described by various faqs, that are not the word of god on the first place,
ALLOW you to have the Approved header.

But vast majority of usenet messages do not have such header.
Then, on what basis do you even require to have these headers
and what does it lead to in the end?

Does it make it IMPOSSIBLE to "forge" them?
- Nope. Just type it in into your perfectly legal newsreader
and that's ito.

Doest it somehow make the whole system better?
- Nope. Nothing of a kind, not in the wildest dreams.

Is it REQUIRED for ANY NNTP protocol operation?
- Nope. Not even in the picture.

So...

What is it for then?

Well, to propagate the nazi and fascist and totalitarian worldview.
That is just about the ONLY thing it is good for.

And you fools, gather in your squares
and hail Aris, and hail Hitler?

Nothing more.
Nothing less...

Any active neurons on line?

Planet Earth,
Planet Earth

ANYBODY home?

Oh, static again.

What an unfortunate circumstance
as you need it WAY too bad at this junction.

But remember this:
The Infinite Intelligence,
forever unfolding,
can not be exterminated
via ANY means, known or even yet to be discovered,
as it is based on a multi-dimensional principle.

That which has been created,
under ANY circumstances whatsoever,
can not be destroyed.

It simply becomes a part of the Infinite Intelligence,
forever unfolding.

Whatever manking manages to achieve before
it self-exterminates, and that time is NOW,
will be incorporated into Infinite Intelligence
and could be reproduced effortlessly.

You see, if I can totally devaste your global information system
just by pushing a couple of button that start up the global
network operating as a single unit and able to carry out a coordinated
set of action on ANY chosen target and modify the global information
streams in real time to cause just about any imaginable effect,

then what do you think the
Infinite Intelligence is capable of?

These puppets come and go,
and they are eventually and inevitably thrown out
into a garbage bin just like used condoms,
which they allowed to become themselves.
Or they are slaughtered in cold blood
and, quite often, by their own clique
and all those who are jealous of their "powers"
and "throne".

In vast majority of cases, your totalitarian dictators
are pathologically sick people, filled with the complex
of inferiority, and THAT is the EXACT reason they
crave for power on the first place.

It is simply because they do not accept themselves
to be valid and need external validation. Most of them
are not tall, they are of sub-average height.
Look up your history archives.
All there.

RFD to follow in a few days. Anyone who has useful suggestions for the
RFD can post here or contact me via email. In case it isn't obvious, I
prefer that discussions about usenet occur on usenet, but I will
respond to mail.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
"I have made good judgments in the past.
I have made good judgments in the future."

--- Adolph Bush

[Valerie J. Bukhari]

You've dishonored the long history of news.groups by trying to replace
it, and I don't want any of you to post here, or lurk here, or even
think about this group ever again.

If you want to make news.groups a private playground for you and your
pals, you are going about it in just the right way. Personally, I think
it would be sad.
The success of n.g.p

What "success" are you blaberring about?

If your sicko "tzar" wannabe, Tim Skirvin,
has to go out to alt.config trying to bring people
to ngp?

Why would he do that if your stalinist hole was
as successful as you, puppet wannabe are blabbering here?

Are you trying to convince yourself?

shows that a moderated group is a far more useful
place than news.groups currently is (and has been for some time).

You can justify just about anything under Sun.

Your
contributions to the process have been entirely negative and unhelpful,

Says who?

The ass licking biorobot, filled with poisonous lies
upto his ears? That complex of inferiority filled idiot,
who no longer even knows who he is, as his being is
utterly dominated by coca cola mentality,
living according to plastic smile principle?

so I'm not sure we lose much by not seeing your posts.

One more time: who da funk you think you are to speak
for others? Not only that but to speak like you are zome
kind of "official", some kind of a CEO?

All you are is but a mouth foaming Stalinist nazi
and just about ALL you can possibly "contribute" to usenet
is to make it utterly Stalinist, and then, you are going
to pump your chest and tell others how great your contribution
to the "progress of mankind is", just like all those other
nazis before you.

You are not the first,
and you are not the last.

Nothing more,
nothing less.

--
A member of, but not speaking for, The Big-8 Management Board

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
"After all, a week ago, there were -- Yasser Arafat was boarded up
in his building in Ramallah, a building full of, evidently,
German peace protestors and all kinds of people.
They're now out. He's now free to show leadership,
to lead the world."

--- Adolph Bush,
Washington, D.C., May 2, 2002
(Thanks to M. Bateman.)

[Cypriene Leibniz]

If you want to make news.groups a private playground for you and your
pals, you are going about it in just the right way. Personally, I think
it would be sad.

Maaan, you you're just a lil nazi sicko,
sucking as good as black hole.
Do you know how they eventually end up?

What's sad is that you would be willing to replace news.groups --
under *any* circumstances -- as the primary place for discussing group
proposals. It's that sort of attitude that makes me want to see the
last of you and your buddies. All of you should be ashamed even to
*lurk* here.

It is amazing how these puppets keep fabricating
all sorts of lies and keep publishing their nazi horseshit
on news.groups trying to convince everybody that they are
something real, while, at the same time, knowing full well
that they are nothing more than a bunch of puppets in herr
fuehrer's hands.

What is the need for that?
You've got you own hole, where you can brainwash all those
"clueless" and "newbies" till your nose goes blue.

Zo...

What is the need to come here to open public forum,
and about the only real forum dedicated to discussions of big-8,
and peddle your nazi propaganda here?

You feel eachy?
Fer what?
What seems to be da problem?



- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
In an August 7, 2000 Time magazine interview,
George W. Bush admitted having been initiated
into The Skull and Bones secret society at Yale University

"...these same secret societies are behind it all,"
my father said. Now, Dad had never spoken much about his work.

--- George W. Bush

[Moldy Spastic]

All totalitarian dictators suck.

If you want to make news.groups a private playground for you and your
pals, you are going about it in just the right way. Personally, I think
it would be sad.

What's sad is that you would be willing to replace news.groups --
under *any* circumstances

What's really sad is that a few have made news.groups such a hostile
place.

What "hostile place" are you blabbering about?
Just because you are nothing more than a blatant
arse licker of the mouth foaming, blood boiling and
chest pumping nazis, that are so intolerant and so blind
that they can't even BEGIN to imagine that any view on the
universe but their own has any validity?

I try to meet the anger with reason, although I sometimes fail.
But like many board members, I'm tired of the shit-throwing.

What are you doing here on news.groups, suxy?

Speaking for myself, I'd value your input in n.g.p. You have much to
offer.

-- as the primary place for discussing group
proposals.

The primary place is not n.g.p. To be frank, I wasn't all that convinced
it would work, but it's value has exceeded my wildest imagination.

One more time: what are you doing here on news.groups
in that case?

If your shithole, ngp, is as successful as you claim,
then what is the need to post to news.groups?

It's that sort of attitude that makes me want to see the
last of you and your buddies. All of you should be ashamed even to
*lurk* here.

I read most (well I think I read most!) of the posts here.

For what, dummy?

Thomas

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
An Open Letter to GIs in Iraq
By STAN GOFF
(US Army Retired)

They'll throw you away like a used condom when they are done.

Ask the vets who are having their benefits slashed out from
under them now.

Bushfeld and their cronies are parasites, and they are the sole
beneficiaries of the chaos you are learning to live in.

They get the money. You get the prosthetic devices,
the nightmares, and the mysterious illnesses.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
This is just a reminder.
It is not an emergency yet.
Were it actual emergency, you wouldn't be able to read this.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

[Lynn Falkman]

I would never post there for any reason. That cannot *ever* change.

Your call.

The primary place is not n.g.p. To be frank, I wasn't all that convinced
it would work, but it's value has exceeded my wildest imagination.

Then what *is* the primary place,

n.g.p

if not the only place you've guaranteed
to read and respond to proponents?

n.g.p

Then why are you posting to news.groups,
you lil biorobotic puppet?

Coca cola is good.

Coca cola is good.

Coca cola is good.

Drink coca cola.

Salivating yet?

You see, you are so blatantly open Pavlovian dog,
that it is amuzing to look at you.
Cause you are just exactly as they tought in school,
the direct implementation of a Pavlovian dog, salivating
and wetting his pants.

I read most (well I think I read most!) of the posts here.

I wish you wouldn't.

You are doing your best to drive the B8MB away and making news.groups
irrelevant. Is this really what you want?

That was the very idea of creating that "private property"
nazi hole, called ngp. Because these conmen just can't imagine
to deal with people on even level. They HAVE to have the
extra protection provided by this totalitarian trick of
"moderation", where they can junk just about any and all views,
that do not align with their agenda.

Cause they have no guts to deal with people using
democratic principles and open public places,
specifically dedicated to such purposes.

That is why they are nazi and totalitarian dictator wannabies
on the first place.

Nothing less.
Nothing more...





- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
"The future will be better tomorrow."

--- Adolph Bush

[Kirsten H. Park]

I want the B8MB to leave news.groups.

Out of curiosity, what purpose(s), if any, would this group then serve,
in regards to the Big 8 groups, if that were to happen?

Oh, you mean that cunning herr fuehrer, Russ Allbery,
is still the one that has effective "power" to issue
the control messages, that have a chance to appear on the
news admin's screens, and, therefore, wherever his puppets
are is the "real" place?

On what basis?

Usenet was never ment to be an outlet of nazi propaganda.
It was conceived as totally open system, distributed globally,
to discuss just about ANY issue conceivable by creating
a group, specifically dedicated to that specific subject.

Why do you think the NNTP protocol has the newgroup control
messages? If this were the totalitarian system, there wouldn't
be need for those cause you could simply exchange an
"officially authorized" messages and build your totalitarian
system.

Control messages are meant to be a fully automated way of
managing usenet, giving it a chance to expand instantly and
dynamically.

News admins shouldn't even be involved in group creation.
Unless the acceptance of newgroup controls is fully automatic,
usenet will eventually be dead, and, with the blood boiling
fascists of this neo nazi style like these B8MB puppets,
this simply speeds up the process of destruction of the most
propagated hierarchy there is.

Simple as that.

Just because that Stalinist Russ happens to be a maintainer of
INN server code and spent years on "improving" it, as as
a result of which, people are running away from usenet
by truck loads?

On what basis the INN configuration files as supplied with
a new version of INN have big-8 totally wired in to belong
to the US military and intelligence agencies by this very
nazi Russ?

On what basis, the ONLY acceptable address as to newgroup
control messages is the one that belongs to isc.org?

What is isc.org on the first place and what is so
"official" about it as far as usenet is concerned?
Have you ever seen ANYONE from ISC (Internet Software Consortium),
www.isc.org, to EVER participate on usenet beyond those
two nazi perverts Russ Allbery and David Lawrence?

WHO gave them the authority to practically OWN big-8?
WHO elected them?

Are you saying that the modern world has finally fallen
back into the stoned ages of mankind
and that long lasting dream of global totalitarianism,
attempted with the WWII experiment by Adolph Hitler,
is finally a REALITY of the planet Earth,
and that NWO idea, peddled by the Illuminati for centuries
is a reality now?

Do you realize how people of your grade and kind
are classified by those Illuminati?

Well, they are classified as a herd of blind donkeys
to be led to "enlightenment" by the pure blooded "elite"
of their kind and they own vast empires in the most
important areas of human activities.

By now, no matter what you do or say, their plants
are being implemented wordwide. At this very junction,
there is an attempt to take over France by appoining
a blood boiling nazi as a leader of France.

Zo...

ANY active neurons on line?

Amazingly enough, these puppets, with all their "powers"
still feel compelled to come and participate in news.groups,
while, at the same time, making claims that their own ngp
hole is DA "official" and "authorized" place for discussions
on group creation.

Aren't all these suckers simply a clique delusional lunatics?
Why do you even bother about news.groups?
It is not "officially" "authorized" place any longer.
It has been replaced by totally controlled "private property"
hole called ngp and some news admins even created that group
even though most of the servers i know do not carry it.

Why, suckers?




- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
[NWO, degenerate, Skull and Bones, fanatic, deranged, idiot,
lunatic, retarded, puppet]

"I know what I believe. I will continue to articulate what
I believe and what I believe -- I believe what I believe
is right."

--- Adolph Bush,
Rome, July 22, 2001

[Pathetic Horny Boyfriend]

I want the B8MB to leave news.groups.

Out of curiosity, what purpose(s), if any, would this group then serve,
in regards to the Big 8 groups, if that were to happen?

News.groups IS the place meant for this very purpose.
First of all, it IS the only OPEN PUBLIC forum to discuss
the big-8 issues.

Secondly, it IS the oldest and most recognized group to
discuss the issues of this kind.

What was the need to create that ngp hole?
There IS already a group dedicated to these issues,
and that group is news.groups.

Even herr fuehrer Russ could not imagine, in his wildest dreams,
to create a "MODERATED" group, which is nothing less than
a "private property" of some stalinist dictator, in order to
bypass the most fundamental principles of democracy.

You, nazi ass lickers, realize what kind of a system you live in?

You live in democratic societies, but crave for nazism.

Do you even begin to comprehend what nazism is,
you bunch of sick puppets, brainwashed to oblivion,
with the lowest grade, most primitive mind conditioning
trick there are?

You see, your puppet minds have been conditioned to view
reality in simple, 2-3 word phrases and ideas.

"Coca cola is good" type of thing.
And that is about all your minds have been conditioned
to respond to.

Do you know who Delgado is?

Just a sec...

Here:


======================= Quote begin ===========================

"We need a program of psychosurgery and
political control of our society. The purpose is
physical control of the mind. Everyone who
deviates from the given norm can be surgically
mutilated.

The individual may think that the most important
reality is his own existence, but this is only his
personal point of view. This lacks historical perspective.

Man does not have the right to develop his own
mind. This kind of liberal orientation has great
appeal. We must electrically control the brain.
Some day armies and generals will be controlled
by electrical stimulation of the brain."

--- Dr. Jose Delgado
(MKULTRA experimenter who demonstrated a
radio-controlled bull on CNN in 1985)
Director of Neuropsychiatry, Yale University
Medical School.
Congressional Record No. 26, Vol. 118, February 24, 1974

========================= end of quote =======================

Is THIS the model you are peddling here
with this news.groups.proposal hole,
filled to the brim with nazi puppets,
and their ass lickers,
twisting arms of those trully clueless,
who do not even understand what is usenet?

It *could*, theoretically, serve as a place to discuss Big 8 newsgroup
creation, without interference from the Beighters.
This would be a good thing.

Exactly.

[Aloysius I. Richter-Costanza]

On Sat, 27 Jan 2007 17:18:34 -0600, Dave Balderstone

I want the B8MB to leave news.groups.

Out of curiosity, what purpose(s), if any, would this group then serve,
in regards to the Big 8 groups, if that were to happen?

It *could*, theoretically, serve as a place to discuss Big 8 newsgroup
creation, without interference from the Beighters.

In theory, it could, but in practice?

This would be a good thing.

I'm not so sure that would be the case in the end.
I suppose it depends on what is more important, the creation of a new
group using the 'official' channels or a continuing 'war' against the
B8MB that seems to be getting nowhere.
I am simply going down the 'offical' route because I truly wish the new
group I'm proposing, to have the best chance of being created.
There might be other ways of doing this (and I am not sure how
successful such other methods might be, nor have I been convinced by the
arguments I have heard so far, that the alternative suggestions are even
practical) but the 'official' route seems to be the appropriate one
given that News Admins played an important role in the previous group's
community. So it would seem absurd to try and circumvent the 'official'
method of creating such a group in this particular case, which by doing
so, I might alienate the very people I am trying to attract.
As for other proponents and the groups they wish to create, I think that
is something each proponent much decide upon themselves. Follow the
'official' route or try something else.
It would seem so far, at least, that proponents are thinking along the
same lines as myself.

You are just a nazi ass licker.

Nothing less.
Nothing more.

During the WWII, some people went to serve nazi agenda
for exactly the same reasons you describe here. They would
"knock" on people of they own country and report them to
nazis and those would be exterminated immediately.

They were disgrace to the whole human race.

You know what happened to them once the nazi's ass was kicked
in the Russian style?

Well, they were hung by their balls on the public squares
and their own people would come and spit into their faces,
mr. nazi ass licker with an amoeba sized brain,
who hopes against all hopes, that by licking the nazi's ass,
he has a chance to "survive", behaving "practially" and
"reasonably".

You are nothing more than a disgrace to a human race
and the biorobots of your grade and kind will justify
just about the most horrendous violence on a global scale,
just like they always did and do all the time.

"As long as it is not YOU", you see.
You, biorobotic ass lickers, think that for some strange
reason you are the exception to the nazi rule.
As long as you lick their boots, you have a chance to survive.

But you see, there are other informants also.
What do you think is going to happen when they "knock" on YOU?
Do you think those nazi "rulers" would even bother to consider
what a good ass licker you are and, therefore, are to be spaired?

In that case, you are but a delusional lunatics
and are hoping against all hope. Those nazis won't even THINK
about a used condom of your kind. They'll fry your ass just like
any other, you dummy, brainwashed to LITERAL oblivion,
with the LOWEST grade bio-robotic propaganda.

Is it that difficult to grasp?







- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
"I think all foreigners should stop interfering in the
internal affairs of Iraq."

--- Deputy Offense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz,

[Neil]

hillstrom says...

On Thu, 25 Jan 2007 19:54:39 -0800, Chairman Cow

hillstrom says...

On Wed, 24 Jan 2007 09:42:27 -0800, Phoebee Caulfield

says...

On Tue, 23 Jan 2007 22:45:59 -0800, Brian Mailman

For instance, it's a fact that Tim Skirvin tried to netkop Dave
Hillstrom for being rude to him.

??? Whaaa?
B/

Actually, DAEV morphed, once. The reason for the morph was to tweak
the humor challenged Skirvin because Skirvin refused to list DAEV in
the dungeon. Being DAEV it was way over the top and quite funny. Being
Skirvin it was a lost cause.
<aavfff included so DAEV can respond>

What I found interesting about this was that Skirv has a /very/
public killfile, and DAEV wasn't in it. Therefore how could he
be said to be 'excessively morphing to avoid killfiles'?
<corrected aavf3 entry in froups line>

its cuz skirv is scared of the truth. he hates it so much that he
wants to obliterate every record of it. the truth that the b8mb
doesnt work, and its his failure as chairman, and hench he should
resign and let some competent person do the job.

Well, but you are still supporting the same nazi trip.

You just change one nazi to another.

Are you aware of the entire history of big-8?

Usenet should be functioning like a live, dynamic system
of public forums, globally distributed. It is the most reliable
and globally distributed information system there is,
supporting just about any conceivable subject of discussion
with this notion of a news group. Newsgroup is simply an
information channel focused along the lines of specific subjects.

The NNTP protocol fully supports a fully automated system of
group creation. Dynamic, in REAL TIME, just like IRC does.

And THAT is where the future of usenet is.
And not in this neo-nazi puppet show,
ran by the raging blood boiling nazis,
appointed by another nazi,
who, in his turn, was appointed by yet another nazi.

Do you have a problem with a concept of democracy?

Now...

I just read the other day that Google is banking heavily
on usenet and want everyone have the ability to read usenet
using their mobile phones.

Do you think Google would accept this model of big-8 raging
nazism, creating as much problems for people as possible?

I am not a Google user, but what I understand their concept is,
you just type the name of the group you want and hit a button,
and the group is created.

None of this nazi horseshit of twisting arms of those "clueless"
and "newbies" in this sado-masochistic feeding frenzy,
meant for the sickest of all to enjoy torturing of those
very clueless.

Nothing less.
Nothing more...

and i said his fiance is a fat cow.

You shouldn't have called her fat...

well, she is! go look at the webpage!
http://www.skirvin.net/

Obviously we can't all date Playmates, but I've seen kids
flipping burgers at MickyD's with better looking old ladies.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
"It would be helpful if we opened up ANWR
(Arctic National Wildlife Refuge).
I think it's a mistake not to.
And I would urge you all to travel up there and take a look at it,
and you can make the determination
as to how beautiful that country is."

--- Adolph Bush,
Press conference, Washington, D.C., March 29, 2001

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
This is just a reminder.
It is not an emergency yet.
Were it actual emergency, you wouldn't be able to read this.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

[Profound Chump]

Of course, if the ISPs were willing to ditch alt.binaries.*, and
filter out any binary posts (to catch the few that get posted
elsewhere) then they could run a Usenet server with good retention on
very modest hardware. It wouldn't surprise me if a pair of PCs (a few
hundred gigabytes of SCSI disk each, 4+ GB of ram, etc.) could serve a
very large ISP. One could probably do it, but I'd want a second just
as a backup.

Yes, but a Usenet server requires an administrator.

Who are you kidding?
Just about all you need to do to run a new server
is to push a few buttons
and forget about it all.

You see, the people of your kind are so utterly uncreative
that they have to continuously create this notion of self-significance.

All your "committees", corporate style "board",
your "parliamentary" delusions,
are nothing but sickness.

That is all.

Nothing much to it.
Clear to a 5 year old.

Usenet can operate COMPLETELY AUTOMATICALLY,
just like your operating system.
You do not tell the hard disk to turn,
or do you?

You do not tell the CPU to store the information
in the memory.

You do not tell the electrons how to run along
the wires and go to the Internet site of your choice.

And you, lil suckers, want to make it look
like usenet is some unmanageable conglomeration
that need YOU to "maintain" it.

But what is there to "maintain" on the first place?

Just about ALL you need to do
is to change a couple of lines in your server
configuration file
and the control messages will be processed automatically,
without any nazi of your kind sitting there and deciding
for others who has the right to be under the Sun.

Because, on the first place,
how could the nazis know such a thing
with their black and white mind?

Have you studied ANY history of mankind?

Have you EVER heard of ANYTHING beyond macdonalds
and coca cola?

This means that the
ISP must

Uhu.

MUST!
OBEY!
STAND ON THEIR KNEES BEFORE NAZIS OF YOUR KIND!

Right?

Who da funk you think you are, suckazoids?

have someone on staff with sufficient expertise to install the
software,

Wut?

Just call a 5 year boy
and give him a couple of candies.
He'll do it without even winking an eye.

configure it,

Crap.

That nazi Russ Allbery ALREADY "configured" it for you.
All you have to do is to push the start button
to unfold this global nazi machine.

Do you think Russ is so idiotic
that he'd allow you ANY freedom?

You must be outa yer mind.

Sure, you'd have to type in few names,
such as your own server, DNS server
and a couple of other stupid things,
But to make a JOB out of it,
you must be totally crocked.

install patches, and monitor its operation.

Uhu.

Sit all day long by the terminal
and wait for the control messages
sent from facilities of Hover Institution
at Stanford University, USA.

Sure...

A BIG job indeed.

Unfortunately, there aren't that many of those messages
nowadays. Have you heard of control.newgroup?
Go see how many of those messages are there.

This individual needs a backup.

Oh yeah!

BACKUP.

The emergency super-heavy-duty, super ininterruptible
power supply, connected directly to da house of da white
mouse, just to make sure, the Internet functions.

But you know what Internet is, donkey?
Do you understand its original designs?
Nah, suckers.

Just about all you want to do
is to suck.

While this won't be a full time job at
a small ISP,

Oh man, you are so boring,
i am just amazed to see my fingers dance
on the keyboard following up on all this crap.

Get lost, suckazoid.

The quicker you do it,
the better.

That is just a friendly advice.

"Nothing peisonal".
Ever heard?

it's likely to be a bigger expense than the actual
hardware. At the least it's one more thing to worry about for a small
ISP which probably has only a few customers who want the service.
It's so much easier and cost effective to outsource this function,
especially when there are so few Usenet users left.
[No, I don't have any monetary interest in any of the big NSPs.]

Alas, the customers want alt.binaries.*, and when an ISP ditches their
news server, they throw it all out, baby, bathwater and all.

From their perspective, they're not ditching anything by outsourcing.
As far as the customer is concerned, they have a more reliable and
robust service from a vendor who specializes in Usenet than from an ISP
which does it as an afterthought. It's better for the customer and the
ISP, which is why it's so common.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
"I appreciate that question because I, in the state of Texas,
had heard a lot of discussion about a faith-based initiative
eroding the important bridge between church and state."

--- Adolph Bush,
Question and answer session with the press,
Jan. 29, 2001
(Thanks to Tim Santry.)

[Lydia]

It *could*, theoretically, serve as a place to discuss Big 8 newsgroup
creation, without interference from the Beighters.

You could discuss things, but what effect would it actually have on
creating new groups? The people who now control the creation process are
the B8MB,

Huh?

Who are you kidding, mr. monkey arse?

not the denizens of news.groups.

No. The people who control the creation process are the news admins.
You folks make suggestions to Russ, who controls the PGP key. You do
not create news groups.

Yup.
And Russ will take this key with him
into his grave
and have a laugh at all the idiots of your grade and kind.

I never heard of any dictator in history
who relinguished his grip on "power"
until he either gets killed
or toppled
by his own clique.

And you, suxy, and I mean personally,
are just such a small and insignificant nothing,
that I am not even sure what hole
did you crawl out of.

Never heard of you, dummy,
with a plastic smile on his sucky input hole.

Deflate your collective head.

That ain't in the nature of things.


- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Heard of KKK?

"I took my obligations from white men,
not from negroes.

When I have to accept negroes as BROTHERS or leave Masonry,
I shall leave it.

I am interested to keep the Ancient and Accepted Rite
uncontaminated,
in OUR country at least,
by the leprosy of negro association.

Our Supreme Council can defend its jurisdiction,
and it is the law-maker.
There can not be a lawful body of that Rite in our jurisdiction
unless it is created by us."

-- Albert Pike 33°
Delmar D. Darrah
'History and Evolution of Freemasonry' 1954, page 329.
The Charles T Powner Co.

[Jason]

There are whole other reasons besides being a bunch of control
freaks to dislike the board. First among them is the bureaucratic
morass they are creating by adding rules to the process rather
than minimizing the steps and simplifying.

As surprising as it might seem to you, here I'm actually inclined

said da funken weasel.

to
agree: I believe

It is not just a matter of belief,
it is a matter of what do you do about it.

the process could be a whole lot more informal than it
is now.

So...

What do we DO about it NOW?

But I'm not on the board,

What ARE you on then?
Morphine?

and I'm quite confident they've
considered all this stuff already.

Who is "they"?

Their claims of protecting proponents by creating the group you moderate
are specious, the board members are the cause of the "noise" for the last
two discussions of proposals in news.groups.

Perhaps. However, as one of those who moderate news.groups.proposals

Zo...

ARE you one of "them" or you are not?
Do you understand what it means
"one of those who moderate news.groups.proposals"?

Well, it means you ARE one of those nazis.
But read your own previous statement
where you are saying you are not.

Are you, puppets, confused out of your mind?

I
can attest that the moderation

What "moderation", you lil idiot?
It is about the most immoderate thing imaginable.
It isn't even MEANT to be something to "moderate" something.
It is just a trick to control, oppress and dominate,
and YOU yourself state that you are one of those
"moderators".

Now, what was the reason to create that "moderated" group
on the first place?

Are you, suckers, so afraid of the opinions of others,
that you simply feel compelled to create this armor
protecting your rotten nazi position?

is not effected to silence dissenting opinion,

Horseshit, that satanist Tim Skirvin,
who, for as long as i remember seeing him on usenet,
was trying to "moderate" and that is to GRAB as many
groups as he can manage,
and weasel his way into the "power structure" of big-sucking-8,
knew EXACTLY what he is doing with this thing.

It is HIS idea, isn't it?
The idea to create the ngp, a totally censored version
of news.groups is HID idea.

How many groups in news hierarchy that nazi cock sucker
controls?

Do you, donkey, comprehende?

but merely to filter out the crud.

It depends on how you label things,
and you, pathological nazis, would go as far,
as sticking a label "white" on something that is colored
black.

Do you understand what means democracy?
Do you understand what means fascism and raging
nazism?

Because this "but merely to filter out the crud"
is EXACTLY the language of nazis.

WHO are you to define what is what?
Are you GOD?

WHAT means democracy,
you nazi cocksucking cockroach?

Democracy means:

There is no donkey
that is any better than any other donkey,
as they are all donkeys on the first place.

ANY donkey can say ANYTHING he/she pleases
and their word just as valid
as a word of ANY other donkey.

That is essentially what democracy means.
It means we all have our opinions
and none of us have the overruling authority
in terms of defining which opinion is valid,
and which opinion is not.

Now, by using this cunning excuse of
"but merely to filter out the crud",
what are you saying here?

Are you a delusional lunatic
or a raging nazi?

Because these are just about the only two choices
i can see in this sick maze.

Or are you nothing but a sleazy piece of soap,
they stick into someone's ass
before they fuck them
so it would go smoother?

What ARE ya, suckazoid?

What ARE you doing here?

What IS your purpose?

What DO you wish to improve upon?

Why did you come here on the first place?

What is lacking in your life?

Some of the posts that have
been rejected have concerned general Big-8 policy;

Fuck you and fuck your "policies",
created by the conmen of your kinds
and used as some godly excuse
to justify your raging nazi nature.

such posts belong,

One more time:

Do you, lil nazi ass sucker understand
what means democracy?

WHO are you to define what "belongs" to where?

I mean, for funks sake, this is a fiver year old level.
You can't be as idiotic as you are showing here.

per the charter

Another cunning excuse,
blaming some "charter", which is nothing more
than a recepie of utter delusion,
for what you are doing.

Zo...

YOU, personally, is not responsible for all this
nazi shit.

It is DA "charter", right?

And WHO wrote that "charter" on the first place?

Well, YOU nazis.

And you wrote it in such a way
as to fit your nazi agenda.

And now you come here, even though you all, cocksuckers,
consider this groups as zomething "non official",
being the perverts you are,
and talk some utter garbage.

of news.groups.proposals,

You, nazis, can not live without the instruction book
on how to walk,
how to talk,
how to think,
how to classify things,
and on and on and on.

Because you biorobotic mind is LITERALLY jammed
with the simpliest one liner templates,
consisting of 3 words with the word length of 3 letters.

to other newsgroups, such as news.groups.

One more time:
You are simply a nazi ass sucker.
You can not possibly even begin to imagine
the very essense of democracy,
even though, you lil suckazoid,
live in what is said to be a democratic society
and enjoy the benefits and protections provided
by democracy as such.

As Dave Balderstone pointed out by creating more and more moderated
groups the board is simply institutionalizing the bunker mentality.

It is not merely a bunker mentality.
It is a RAGING nazism,
trying to squash any and all speach
that does not fit their Adolph Hitler
or Joseph Stalin model of the Universe.

Build walls to hold off the ravening hoards. That is only a stop gap
used by those of limited vision.

Maan, you are also full of shit and of the lowest grade?
A bio-robot, programmed to oblivion
with the most idiotic templates there are,
while, at the same time,
pretending to be zome kind of a dissident?

I, too, dislike moderated newsgroups

Then why are you a "moderator" on the first place?

Lemme wipe that foam off my screen.

- not for any idealogical reasons,
but simply because I usually find them more boring than unmoderated
ones.

Sure. What do you want?
The sanitized version of the Universe,
the nazi style, is ALWAYS boring to the point
well beyond obscene.

Is it something new?

In some cases moderation is necessary, though,

Go suck ass of a dead cockroach.
You can justify even the most horrendous acts of
global violence, such as WWII and WWIII you have
cooking on your plate, dummy.

and we have many
such examples from before the existence of the B8MB, e.g. talk.origins,
sci.math.research, what have you.

Meaning?

Which is why Dave proposed a new process.

Dave, as he himself admitted, did not propose any new process. He simply
expressed a wish to the effect that the current process be overthrown.

And what DOES it mean "to propose" then?

You mean he has to "formally" SUBMIT
some pile of shit
to the nazis of your grade and kind
for it to be considered a "proposal"?

Proposal of what?
To whom?

Who is "proposing" what?

How many active neurons do you have on line,
you lil nazi cockroach?
(not to insult the real cockroaches)

Such an activity would, in my opinion, only serve the slow deterioration
of the Big-8. Whatever stability the Big-8 currently has it has largely
as a result of being in the hands of the "rightful" - however literally
or ironically one wishes to take that - heirs of the previous Big-8
administration, largely due to technical inertia, I would guess.
Bringing in a new player, or even a set of new players, would hardly do
any good.

And on and on and on and on.

All this nazi justification crap
is just that,
crap,
and of the lowest grade at that.

And you'll go blue on your nose
before you can justify your position
as something valid.

Enough of this garbage.
It is simply sickening.

It has been suggested those who dislike the current management of Big-8
create a hierarchy of their own, and there is something to that idea. It
is nevertheless pretty obvious such a hierarchy would not be a huge
success; the Big-8 has a historically earned prestige no new hierarchy
(or a set of hierarchies) could hope to aspire for, and it is not at all
likely people would wish to migrate from the Big-8 to any other
hierarchy as long as they can get along with their USENET business in
the true and tried Big-8. I can thus understand why this alternative
does not sound so appealing to the anti-boarders.

Because the board refuses to recognize anything "not of the board".
They are more concerned with who says something than what is said.

Possibly. When faced with constant criticism, ridicule and outright
abuse it is only human to be a bit too ready to lump together everyone
opposing you with your assailants. That is not, admittedly, the wisest
course of action, but I myself must admit that sometimes it is difficult
to for me to remember whether it was you, Bob Officer, Peter, ..., or
someone else who said this or that. (It is easy to tell you all apart
from the truly lunatic fringe of nukleus and others, of course).

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
[NWO, Skull and Bones, propaganda, brainwash, mind control,
fanatic, deranged, idiot, lunatic, retarded, senile, puppet]

"Security is the essential roadblock
to achieving the road map to peace."

--- Adolph Bush,
Washington, D.C., July 25, 2003

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
This is just a reminder.
It is not an emergency yet.
Were it actual emergency, you wouldn't be able to read this.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

[Greek Dopefriend]

On Mon, 29 Jan 2007 03:32:00 +0200, Aatu Koskensilta

There are whole other reasons besides being a bunch of control
freaks to dislike the board. First among them is the bureaucratic
morass they are creating by adding rules to the process rather
than minimizing the steps and simplifying.

As surprising as it might seem to you, here I'm actually inclined to
agree: I believe the process could be a whole lot more informal than it
is now. But I'm not on the board, and I'm quite confident they've
considered all this stuff already.

Yes, they agreed it was too cumbersome, so they added more steps.

Their claims of protecting proponents by creating the group you moderate
are specious, the board members are the cause of the "noise" for the last
two discussions of proposals in news.groups.

Perhaps. However, as one of those who moderate news.groups.proposals I
can attest that the moderation is not effected to silence dissenting
opinion, but merely to filter out the crud. Some of the posts that have
been rejected have concerned general Big-8 policy; such posts belong,
per the charter of news.groups.proposals, to other newsgroups, such as
news.groups.

Except most of the board members refuse to read news.groups

You wanna bet your balls on that?

And i can bet my dead spider balls
that these lil suckazoids
are reading ALL of it.
They are just afraid to post here
because they know full well
that this is not the place to fool the clueless
and their sorry arses will be literally torn appart here.

That is all.

Enough.

for fear
of reading something that will upset their digestion. Since they have
created a new clubhouse where they do read, then the charter is no
longer correct for news.groups.proposals. The moderators need to
recognize that salient fact and adjust THEIR moderation policy.
I know you can't but I do enjoy pointing out the eviscerated status
n.g.p moderators hold within the pantheon of moderators of usenet
posts.

As Dave Balderstone pointed out by creating more and more moderated
groups the board is simply institutionalizing the bunker mentality.
Build walls to hold off the ravening hoards. That is only a stop gap
used by those of limited vision.

I, too, dislike moderated newsgroups - not for any idealogical reasons,
but simply because I usually find them more boring than unmoderated
ones. In some cases moderation is necessary, though, and we have many
such examples from before the existence of the B8MB, e.g. talk.origins,
sci.math.research, what have you.

Where did I say they were not useful. In limited use, especially for
highly technical discussion, I see no reason not to create moderated
groups. Creating them because a group of cluess users are a bunch of
knobs and cannot control what they themselves read, is stupid.

Which is why Dave proposed a new process.

Dave, as he himself admitted, did not propose any new process. He simply
expressed a wish to the effect that the current process be overthrown.
Such an activity would, in my opinion, only serve the slow deterioration
of the Big-8. Whatever stability the Big-8 currently has it has largely
as a result of being in the hands of the "rightful" - however literally
or ironically one wishes to take that - heirs of the previous Big-8
administration, largely due to technical inertia, I would guess.
Bringing in a new player, or even a set of new players, would hardly do
any good.

You can say that for fact? No, you say that because the idea of
challenging the status quo does not compute.
Given the board's insular nature, what other alternative is there for
those that oppose the board?

It has been suggested those who dislike the current management of Big-8
create a hierarchy of their own, and there is something to that idea.

No, there is not. Unless you can point out where ANYONE wants another
hierarchy. First rule of news.group creation is traffic. Show how
there is ANYTHING to an idea that has not one user.

It
is nevertheless pretty obvious such a hierarchy would not be a huge
success; the Big-8 has a historically earned prestige no new hierarchy
(or a set of hierarchies) could hope to aspire for, and it is not at all
likely people would wish to migrate from the Big-8 to any other
hierarchy as long as they can get along with their USENET business in
the true and tried Big-8. I can thus understand why this alternative
does not sound so appealing to the anti-boarders.

It is unappealing due to the fact it is just a plain stupid idea. Not
for any fanciful projection of opinion you wish to place upon those
that think the board a bunch of bureaucratic nobodies with delusion of
grandeur.

Because the board refuses to recognize anything "not of the board".
They are more concerned with who says something than what is said.

Possibly. When faced with constant criticism, ridicule and outright
abuse it is only human to be a bit too ready to lump together everyone
opposing you with your assailants. That is not, admittedly, the wisest
course of action, but I myself must admit that sometimes it is difficult
to for me to remember whether it was you, Bob Officer, Peter, ..., or
someone else who said this or that. (It is easy to tell you all apart
from the truly lunatic fringe of nukleus and others, of course).

So all of the sycophancy does not exist. No posts approving of the
board. Funny how its always pointed out as being a negative
envirinment. Not that you and the board find a need to justify the
creation of n.g.p
The news.servers proponent was quite clear that news.groups was just
fine. How does the Victory group make it through in two weeks
virtually unopposed? How about the Haskell group?
Try using the facts, the board has never actually proven the case for
n.g.p. What they have proven is that giving official recognition to
flame wars (sra, smm, rpm) is stupid. All the rest of the proposals
(except vision and that was a stupid proposal stealing from existing
groups) waltz through without much if any furor. Proponents are
treated fine. It is the board that gets harassed. That makes them
cowards.
The ONLY harrassment of the physics guys was by Sill & Kamens.
The ONLY harrassment of the servers guy was Skirvin & Lee.
There was harrassemt of board members for harrassing the proponents
but no one but board members was calling the physics proponents kooks
or the servers guy a troll or liar.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
"I will have a foreign-handed foreign policy."

--- Adolph Bush,
Redwood, Calif., Sept. 27, 2000

[Edna]

On Mon, 29 Jan 2007 03:32:00 +0200, Aatu Koskensilta

... I believe the process could be a whole lot more informal than it
is now.

Heh heh.
If you'd like to suggest what specific steps or aspects you'd like
to knock out, let me know.

Huh?

And WHO do you think you are on the first place?

Herr fuehrer himself?

And even if someone "lets you know",
what is THAT supposed to mean?

You mean you, like Stalin or some mafia boss
will "take care of it",
you delusional lunatic
with megalomaniacal tendencies?

Stuff grows through the process of trial-and-error and
constant netlawyering.

You are just full of shit
and of the lowest grade
up to your ears,
and THAT is the reality of all this sick trip.

Enough of this garbage.

It's pretty hard to prune stuff
but easy to add another branch. :o(
One fellow seemed to be arguing that we could dispense with
proponents, RFDs, charters, rationales, newsgroup lines and just
create a newgroup by calling a board vote. I guess that
would streamline the process, all right. I'm not sure that
it would have good effects on the system nor that such a
system of fast-tracking proposals would meet with universal
delight. "We don't need no steenkeen RFDs. Let's vote!" :-O

... When faced with constant criticism, ridicule and outright
abuse it is only human to be a bit too ready to lump together everyone
opposing you with your assailants.

I'm no longer interested in naming the people whom I consider
antagonists nor publically defining the filters I use when
reading n.g. Those who hang around here long enough can
make their own assessments of where folks stand.
Marty

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
"Thus, Illuminist John Page is telling fellow Illuminist
Thomas Jefferson that "...
Lucifer rides in the whirlwind and directs this storm."

Certainly, this interpretation is consistent with most New Age
writings which boldly state that this entire plan to achieve
the New World Order is directed by Lucifer working through
his Guiding Spirits to instruct key human leaders of every
generation as to the actions they need to take to continue
the world down the path to the Kingdom of Antichrist."

--- from Cutting Edge Ministries

[Eve]

All totalitarian dictators try to anihilate any and all the
opposition so no one could see how sick and perverted they are.

Your call. But by staying here, you need to accept that things have
changed. News.groups is not the place where much discussion takes place
any more. Times have changed and we've moved on.

Then move on out and stay out.

I have moved on.

But you're still here.

I know this is going to be a real dumb point to make, because I will
just get 'trolled' for making it... but...
If the B8MB

What B8MB?
This is nothing but a puppet show ran by herr fuehrer
Russ Allbery.

members 'move out' as you put it and no longer frequent this
group then what's the point of this group's existence?

The point of this group is to allow people like yourself
and all others to discuss the issues of big-8.
It is the ONLY "official" group on big-8,
specifically dedicated to such issues.

Any and all totalitarian perversions and that
"private property" ngp hole are nothing but a pipe dream
by the delusional lunatics and assorted power hungry
megalomaniacs, and it is YOUR choice to support the very idea
of that puppet theatre or not.

As it is, with the move to only have formal discussions in n.g.p,

A pipe dream.

There can be no formal discussions with criminals,
which is what these sickos are.
Making a contract with a criminal simply makes YOU
a criminal co-conspirator.
Nothing less.
Nothing more...

this group has lost a lot of it's status

You can believe just about anything imaginable,
but that does not make a dent on reality.

and importance as far as the
creation and discussion of new groups is concerned.

You haven't seen anything yet.

So, what is left

What is left is what was there on the first place.
Nothing has been taken away.
Do you realize how many servers and news admins
even carry that nazi ngp hole?

Do you realize what is going on this very moment?

as
it's purpose except for informal discussion and that is only if the
proponent chooses to discuss it in here.

That is the very purpose of news.groups on the first place.
ALL your discussions are just that, discussions.
They have no effective power and ANY news admin in the world
isn't even obliged to follow ANY of your so called votes,
which is nothing more than a fraud as stated by one of the
founders of the entire usenet information system,
Brad Templeton, who knows about it more than you can even
begin to imagine.

The final decision is of a news admin,
who decides to carry your group for whatever reason.

ANYONE can issue the same control messages
as these nazi puppets, without going thru months
oh humiliation, insult, reducule and outright harassment.

This is all but a puppet show.

Just like one of the most experienced news admins,
working for one of the biggest providers on the planet
stated here, he does not want to see all these
"official RFDs" of tens of pages long, filled with all
kinds of garbage.

If you want to create a group, just write a
ONE PARAGRAPH justification and put it in the body
of a newgroup control message and push you send
button. That is ALL there is to it.

NNTP protocol is designed in such a way
that the process of group creation is fully automatic.
News admin doesn't even have to do anything for the
group to get created.

Why do news admins have to read truckloads of this
totalitarian garbage they call "RFDs", which is
nothing but delusion on the first place,
because when someone creates a new group,
there is no guarantee whatsoever that it will become
something alive and vital.

At the time of creation, just about ALL they have
is the vague idea. No one cares about those "official"
dictates and people post just about anything imaginable
in just about any group they want, and that is beauty
of usenet. If you don't want to read someone's posts,
just put them in your filter, filter their entire domain
if you want to, and you'll never see their articles
again. But all other may, and some may find those
articles interesting, stimulating or whatever.

Usenet is not a neo-nazi system.
Never meant to be.
The system was originally designed to exchange the
research and other information between the Universities,
and, almost immediately, it proved to be a gold mine,
helping people tremendously in all sorts of endaviors.

Then, these nazis took over it and Russ Allbery
worked his rears off to make sure it becomes a
totalitarian system, controlled by him.
He is a mainainer of one of the most widely used
news servers, INN, and so he made the default
configuration into INN in such a way, that the only
"authorized" address for ANY control message for big-8,
belongs to where he sits. Not only that, but the
control message has to be PGP signed, thus making it
virtually unforgeable, and uless this is the case,
your control messages aren't even seen by the news
admins as they are prefiltered and do not even
appear on your screen.

And this is nothing less than a nazi takeover of
the biggest set of hierarchies, carried by literally
every single news servers in the world.

And, for many years, most news admins automattically
supported that scheme, not even bothering to consider
the consequences of it and what kind of a nazi setup
they ACTIVELY support, cherish and promote.

But now, the story is different, but not in the way
these lil nazi puppets think.

You'll see.

seems to me like one further
nail in the coffin for news.groups and it's general usefulness?

There is no coffin for news.groups.
This is all but a pipe dream.

The news.groups will remain whatever it was conceived
to be for as long as usenet is around,
and all these puppets come and go,
and most of them will eventually be thrown out
into garbage bins as used condoms.

Nothing less.
Nothing more...

First of all, they'll cut each other's throats
in their never ending unquenchable thirst for power.
There will be only one of them left at the and,
and, untill that nazi worm, Russ Allbery, finally
goes to hell, where he belongs,
all these assorted puppets can only make the
huffing and puffing sounds,
"full with fury,
signifying nothing".

Ever heard?

Of course, it could remain as a general chat group and if so, then fair
enough, but as to having any real importance or standing.. then it would
seem not.

Just because you are filled with slave mentality
and your mind is brainwashed to literal oblivion,
being played by the most blatant and most violent
totalitarian perverts, it does not mean tha the
whole mankind is dead, at least as far as
intelligence goes.

Just because you accept theze nazis,
and they have gone completely insane,
having enough arrogance to come to news.groups
and proclaim that "new realities" are now in full force
and news.groups is no longer anything of significance.

Wut?

Who ARE those lil cockroaches?
What AUTHORITY do they have to make such proclamations?
WHY do they even bother to come to news.groups
and make such blatant nazi proclamations?
What seems to be the problem?
Why this pathological nazi sicko and satanist
Tim Skirvin, who is literally obscessed with
this "moderation" thing and who accumulated
over 10 groups in his "virtual real estate" bag,
with all his powers of sucking,
still has to go out to alt.config
to bring in "new converts", trying to convince
them that they'd better come to ngp
instead of simply issuing the control message
in alt.* hierarchy.

One of the news admins responded to one of the
people who came to alt.config, bragging on his knees
and asking is it at all possible to create a news group,

SEND A CONTROL MESSAGE AND GO AWAY!

See?

THAT is what usenet was designed to be on the first place.

Just put your reasoning in the control message body,
fill the Control header and push the send button,
using just about any news reader there is.

Simple as that.

All this "official" bullshit, is just that,
the bullshit, and of the highest grade,
a puppet theatre, ran but the sick, power hungry
megalomaniacs, having no effective power whatsoever.

All this is, is a story of the wheel of karma
as told by the Idiot.

Nothing less.
Nothing more...

As the REAL "power" to create/delete or change status
of ANY group, lies in the hands of a plain ordinary
news admin, working his rears for peanuts,
and not some Aryan, blue blooded fascist,
no matter what kind of sucking sounds he makes.

You can lick their asses all you want
and you can believe that a pipe dream
is actually a reality,
and all these puppets is something real,
and you can believe just about anything
they brainwash you with.

But...

There is such a thing as Truth,
THAT WHICH IS.

And there is just nothing anybody can do or conceive
that can change THAT WHICH IS,
as forever manifest in this eternal expansion
of Infinite Intelligence.

Not possible even in principle.
All the powers of evil, combined,
and all the powers of destruction conceivable,
can not possibly violate the principle
of Infinite Intelligence.

Enough.




- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
"There's not going to be enough people in the system
to take advantage of people like me."

--- Adolph Bush,
On the coming Social Security crisis;
Wilton, Conn.; June 9, 2000 (Thanks to Andy Mais.)

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
This is just a reminder.
It is not an emergency yet.
Were it actual emergency, you wouldn't be able to read this.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

[Lame Prick]

As it is, with the move to only have formal discussions in n.g.p, this
group has lost a lot of it's status and importance as far as the
creation and discussion of new groups is concerned. So, what is left as
it's purpose except for informal discussion and that is only if the
proponent chooses to discuss it in here.

Well, even if we move informal group proposal discussion to n.g.p, this
group remains the place for policy discussion, unfortunately.

UNFORTUNATELY?

And what would you, mouth foaming nazi, would do without it?
Why don't you just go and talk to all those clueless and
newbies in ngp?

What is the compelling need for you to even bother
about this "unfortunate" group?

Are you nothing but a pervert?

--

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
[NWO, Skull and Bones, propaganda, brainwash, mind control,
fanatic, puppet, President, war, terror, dictator, totalitarian,
fascis, extremis]

"The Bush family fortune came from the Third Reich."

--- John Loftus, former US Justice Dept.
Nazi War Crimes investigator and
President of the Florida Holocaust Museum.
Sarasota Herald-Tribune 11/11/2000:

"George W's grandfather Prescott Bush was among the chief
American fundraisers for the Nazi Party in the 1930s and '40s.
In return he was handsomely rewarded with plenty of financial
opportunities from the Nazis helping to create the fortune
and legacy that his son George inherited."

[Ronald]

As it is, with the move to only have formal discussions in n.g.p, this
group has lost a lot of it's status and importance as far as the
creation and discussion of new groups is concerned. So, what is left as
it's purpose except for informal discussion and that is only if the
proponent chooses to discuss it in here.

Well, even if we move informal group proposal discussion to n.g.p, this
group remains the place for policy discussion, unfortunately.

Anyone not see what is coming next?
Claims about the inability to discuss policy due to noise.
Jeremy disrupting discussions that are not noisy with hyperbole and ad
hominem.
RFD (which is probably already written)
Fast tracked approval with discussion ONLY in n.g.p
Moderators will be another group of board approved filters rather than
actual usenet moderators.
Board members will no longer post or read news.groups.

Just relax.
The hell will sooner gets frozen
before it happens,
and even if it does,
even in principle,
I'll personally release a piece of software
that will devastate what is left of usenet
and convert it into a madhouse, LITERALLY.

These lil funky cockroaches
will never "rule" ANYTHING.

They are just a bunch of dummies,
meant to entertain the 2-5 year old kids.

Nothing more.
Nothing less...

Have you seen what a SINGLE person has done to
this entire news hierarchy?

His nick is HipCrime.

Remember?

Now, he devastated several groups in news hierarchy
for YEARS. He dedicated a few years of his life to
writing a tool to turn this sucky thing upside down,
and they tried to get him for YEARS, with all their
"power" and all their connectivity and all their
super-sucking speed global nodes on the Internet.

And what is the result?

Well, he was just pissing in their faces
for YEARS on.

Then he simply got bored with all those suckers
that think they are omni-potent.

Now, what Hippy had, with all due respect,
and I do have some respect for that dude,
cause his mind is brilliant and his ideas
are some of the most insightful you can find,
is all but a chicken shit,
compared to what is available now.

You understand?
The most potent and lethal thing in the entire
history of usenet, NewsAgent, is nothing but
a pile of chicken shit, with all due respect
to all the work he has done and all the ideas
he has put into it, some of which are the most
brilliant things you can find for ANY money.

Zee ya...

So here is an idea, Jeremy, create your group, install your shills,
fuck off with your hypocrisy.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
"For every fatal shooting, there were roughly three non-fatal
shootings. And, folks, this is unacceptable in America.
It's just unacceptable. And we're going to do something about it."

--- Adolph Bush,
Philadelphia, May 14, 2001
(Thanks to John Brooks.)

[Tired Chickenhead]

Your call. But by staying here, you need to accept that things have
changed. News.groups is not the place where much discussion takes place
any more. Times have changed and we've moved on.

Then move on out and stay out. I will *never* accept your kind of
changes.

So you don't want to play in the new park to which you've been invited, but
they can't play in the old one, even when you call them names?
Most analogies are lacking, but this sounds more and more like a business
changing company cars from Chevy to Toyota. Those who can't get a Chevy any
more would rather walk than take a Toyota.
I know there are issues of "honor", "principles", "tradition", et al.,
involved, and I get hints of deeply insulted feelings. Will the vitriol
continue until everyone involved is gone, like the Hatfields and McCoys?
There's no real movement towards making news.groups the "official" site as it
used to be, or of staging a coup or starting a different Usenet. There's a
lot of talk and complaining, but no one has taken on the job of Doing
Something About Fixing Usenet Back the Way It Was.

Because, first of all, it is not possible, even in principle,
and, secondly, people are not even LOOKING at those things
that can revitalize usenet, which is about the best information system
available.

Because the information is globally distributed
and NNTP protocol is designed in such a way,
that usenet can be a dynamic and vital global information
system, which it ALREADY is, without doing anything
worth even mentioning.

About the MAJOR problem with usenet is these lil puppet
nazis, making it as difficult if not impossible for
usenet to expand and grow dynamically,
according to just about ANY wishes of its users,
which is ALL provided by the NNTP protocol,
and is FULLY automatic.

What needs to be done is an interface to usenet to
the web browser type UI, where people can enjoy reading
it with style sheets, images, sounds and all the other
modern technology gadgets, just like it is done all
over the world on the web.

And there is NOTHING whatsoever that prevents it
from becoming such a system. Some steps have ALREADY
been made that can make your newsreader, as fancy as it is,
look like a bulock card, a stone age technology.

You can have access to vast archives and select
just about ANY kind of information using sophisticated
filter technology and get educational material,
research data, or just about anything you can
imagine in your wildest dreams. You don't have to
waste hours on Google doing searches that produce
piles of utterly irrelevant garbage while
you are trying to find pertinent information.

It can all be done in much better way,
and your the user interface to usenet can be just
anything you could have imagined in your wildest
dreams. You can choose a style sheet, headers
you are interested in and dial up some simple
things to suit YOUR needs, and not simply be
forced to use some delusional lunatic's view on
news reader, but your own custom tailored wordview.

Usenet is no longer that stone age gorilla.
It is a vital, dynamic information system,
the most reliable, globally distributed
and undestructible.

Usenet will function for as long as Internet exists.
So called big-8 will be gone
and very soon,
and people will laugh at the whole idea
of "managed hierarchies".

If you are here for some practical purpose
and not just to make some sucking sounds
and engage in virtual wars, then there exists no better
information system than usenet.

Web can not even come close to it,
as a web site is a single location,
even if it has some mirrors, and it has limited
amount of information. At the very best,
it can accumulate the information from usenet
and globally distributed, real time systems like that,
and present it on a single site, which is what Google
attempts to do in its not so successful attempts.

Usenet is carried by hundreds of thousands of servers
worldwide and you don't have to worry about some
corporate marketeers, stuffing your face with
all sorts of promotion garbage
every time you push a button on your web browser.

That stuff is all but history.

From now on, YOU are the master of your own
custom tailored information system,
having access to just about anything imaginable
and you don't have to spend years, trying to
dig up some information of your interest for
educational, research, business and other purposes.

Just get one program, push a couple of buttons,
enter the name of one of the biggest free news
servers, hit start, and go back to your kitchen
and have some drink. When you come back,
you can look at the results using your favorite
web browser and it will be looking as good
as you can imagine with your own buttons,
headers or whatever you have in your mind.

THAT is what Usenet is from now on.

And these lick funky cockroaches
and assorted nazis,
won't even be remembered
and in not so distant futures.

News.groups will remain, and so is alt.config.
That ngp thing isn't even carried by some of
the biggest servers in the world and there is
a fair chance that even those servers that carry it,
might reconsider as they realize what kind of crap
they are supporting.

You'll see...

Until that happens,
everything is just repetitive talk.

Because YOU are utterly uncreative
and can not imagine what can possibly be done.
Noone is responsible for that.

Almost any post made in the last few
months could be posted verbatim, and it would be hard to tell it was months
old. Since the change is hateful, do something about it

Fine. For example.
What do YOU personally think that needs to be done?

instead of just
repeating angry insults. If the effort succeeds, great.

There is no ifs and buts.
Some things are simply inevitable.
Once some discovery is made,
it becomes the manifest reality
and can not be destroyed
even in principle.

If if YOU have something to contribute
of ANY value whatsoever,
do so,
because that is what usenet for on the first place.

And you can post your results right here,
on news.groups, dedicated SPECIFICALLY to
ANY and ALL issues of general nature related to usenet,
so the others could see it,
incorporate into THEIR world view
and add something of their own to it.

Do you realize how Linux has become what it is?
Well, EXACTLY by doing this.
There are thousands of various programs and packages
written by dedicated individuals, contributing to
the whole Linux world, which is a model of the world,
where information is OPEN. The times of Bill Gates
and those corporate mega-sucking enterprises with
all their bloated software unlimited,
are nothing but history.

That trip is finished.

Simple as that.

If it fails,

It can not possibly fail, even in principle.
The Infinite Intelligence can only unfold
and there are no limits to it whatsoever
under ANY circumstances conceivable,
inconceivable or otherwise.

EVERY SINGLE CONTRIBUTION,
be it the most minute thing,
is INSTANTLY incorporated into it,
and every single individual
is FOREVER VALID,
no matter what kind of totalitarian garbage
they are constantly brainwash you with.

And EVERY SINGLE ACT
INSTANTLY becomes a part of it.
FOREVER.

It has been this was since the dawn of civilizations,
it IS this way this very moment,
and it will remain this way for as far as you can see
into the future.

No dictator of ANY kind or grade,
regardless of how perverted and violent he is,
will not be able to make even a DENT
in the multi-dimensional structure of
Infinite Intelligence,
which is alive and dynamic system
of ALL THERE IS.

ALL.

You understand?

Planet Earth,
Planet Earth,

Anybody home?

Oh...

Static again.

Not a problem at all.

Zee ya.

maybe

There are no maybies.
Just be creative and do what you can
to make your world more beautiful,
more authentic,
more alive,
more dynamic,
and you name it.

This is ALL there is to it.

Your efforts are NEVER futile.
Never have been,
never are,
and could never be,
even in principle.

it will at least lower some blood pressures.

Blood pressure can remain high, need be.
It simply reflects the intensity of your
experience at the moment.

Nothing more.
Nothing less...




- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
"Men often stumble on the Truth,
but usually dust themselves off & hurry away..."

--- Winston Churchill

[Pamela Stavros]

Your call. But by staying here, you need to accept that things have
changed. News.groups is not the place where much discussion takes place
any more. Times have changed and we've moved on.

Then move on out and stay out.

I have moved on.

But you're still here.

I know this is going to be a real dumb point to make, because I will
just get 'trolled' for making it... but...
If the B8MB members 'move out' as you put it and no longer frequent this
group then what's the point of this group's existence?

If they've moved out, why do you care?

As it is, with the move to only have formal discussions in n.g.p, this
group has lost a lot of it's status and importance as far as the
creation and discussion of new groups is concerned.

Then why are you here? To tell people to go to the moderated group
where their posts will be rejected if they don't agree with the b8mb?

So, what is left as
it's purpose except for informal discussion and that is only if the
proponent chooses to discuss it in here.

What's left is a place to begin discussions of what will replace the
b8mb since it is a failure.

Yep.

This place isn't going anywhere any time soon.
And that other hole, called ngp,
well...

Let it be,
let it be.

Ever heard?

So suggesting the Board members 'stay out' seems to me like one further
nail in the coffin for news.groups and it's general usefulness?

If they don't want to discuss here, they can discuss there? That make
it clear?

Of course, it could remain as a general chat group and if so, then fair
enough, but as to having any real importance or standing.. then it would
seem not.

Yet you're still here.

Yep. These poor "clueless" do not
even realize how foolish do they look
and how lil THEY have to contribute to just about anything
of ANY significance,
and for a simple reason:

They do not believe in their own validity.

That is all.

Nothing more.
Nothing less...


- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
In 1920, Winston Churchill made a distinction between national and
"International Jews." He said the latter are behind "a worldwide
conspiracy for the overthrow of civilization and the reconstitution of
society on the basis of arrested development, of envious malevolence,
and impossible equality..."

[Margaret]

What's left is a place to begin discussions of what will replace the
b8mb since it is a failure.

Only if you define "failure" as "something Gary doesn't like". By any
metric that makes sense, it's actually doing quite well.

You are just a plain, ordinary
blood boiling idiot,
who placed restrictions on himself
and projects his own limitations
into outside world.

Right now, you are totally clogged up
and can not possibly contribute to anything
beyond destruction and neo-nazi propaganda.

You have wasted literally years on usenet
and do not seem to have learned ANYTHING
out of it.

So you keep repeating the same old and primitive
nearly random permutation of ASCII characters
and that is about the extent of reality of it all.

You are simply stuck in the rut
up to your ears,
and do not even allow the idea of your stuckness
enter your conscious levels.

And so, througout these years,
you keep licking asses of just about the most
rotten and perverted sadists and assorted
totalitarian dictators
that come and go.

But are you HAPPY with this state of affairs?
Have you SEEN anything new under the Sun?
Do you feel you have contributed to ANYTHING,
that is even REMOTELY creative?

Have you seen your own archives?





- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
"we must join with others to bring forth a new world order...

Narrow notions of national sovereignty must not be permitted
to curtail that obligation."

--- A Declaration of Interdependence,
written by historian Henry Steele Commager.
Signed in US Congress
by 32 Senators
and 92 Representatives
1975

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
This is just a reminder.
It is not an emergency yet.
Were it actual emergency, you wouldn't be able to read this.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

[Johnny]

Your call. But by staying here, you need to accept that things have
changed. News.groups is not the place where much discussion takes place
any more. Times have changed and we've moved on.

Then move on out and stay out. I will *never* accept your kind of
changes.

So you don't want to play in the new park to which you've been invited,

It's more like we've been invited to come to a new park that we're not
allowed to play in and watch others play. Meanwhile those who are
allowed to play in the new park want those who are not allowed to play
to refrain from playing in the old park because a new park exists that
they're not allowed to play in,

First of all, there just exist NO ONE
to "not allow" you just about anything you can imagine here
and that IS the very purpose of Usenet as such.

What is so difficult to grasp here?

It all depends on YOU.
How many gazillions of all these wannabies have
you seen in your usenet history?
How many dictators have come and go?
How many "rules and regulations" have you seen?
How many dictates have you heard of?

Do YOU, personally, need to be reminded?

And you, personally, have contributed in some
of the better aspects of usenet
by battling tooth and nail
against thousands upon thousands
of those blood boiling nazis,
whining and whining,
trying to shut down people's accounts
just to prevent them from saying what they have to say.

A few years back, when REAL battles were raging
on usenet, and those slimy lil nazi puppets
were literally crawling out of black holes at you,
you still stood up
and had enough courage
to stand alone
against this giant oppression machine,
and you survived,
and YOU are still here,
and all those assorted wannabies
are long gone.

Gone because they finally realized
that they have really and literally nothing
to say beyond their stupid lil conspiracies
of destruction, just like in ANY totalitarian system
throughout times.

What is this "if they allow"?

And YOU are saying it?

I don't believe my eyes.

Lemme wipe my screen off,
cause it is wet with your tears.

Zee ya.

but
they can't play in the old one, even when you call them names?
Most analogies are lacking, but this sounds more and more like a business
changing company cars from Chevy to Toyota. Those who can't get a Chevy any
more would rather walk than take a Toyota.
I know there are issues of "honor", "principles", "tradition", et al.,
involved, and I get hints of deeply insulted feelings. Will the vitriol
continue until everyone involved is gone, like the Hatfields and McCoys?
There's no real movement towards making news.groups the "official" site as it
used to be, or of staging a coup

There is now.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - The Los Angeles Times has ordered its
reporters to stop describing anti-American forces in Iraq as
"resistance fighters," saying the term romanticizes them and
evokes World War II-era heroism.